Petition for diesel powered Jeeps

[dasbulliwagen]

http://www.allpar.com/news/index.php/20 ... now-online

[87Warrior]

:typing:

 

Done. Gosh, if a Diesel Grand shows up within the next 2 years my wife and I would forgo the Duramax Silverado we are eyeing.

 

But I do have one complaint. That artical says a diesel would last longer. Longer than what? Our 4.0 is known to last 300K with good maintenance. Just curious to how long a commuter diesel would run in comparison to the 4.0.

[jimoshel]

Done. But not holding my breath.

[Incommando]

I wonder what kind of power plant they would wind up with if they ever did it? The Italian 4banger used in the KJ couldn't economically pass the '07 diesel regs and they are tougher now. The Grand's Bluetec Mercedes V6 was a dandy, but with ties to M-B cut, what would the cost for that be? We are anticipating a nice, simple diesel for enthusiasts and the bean counters will probably give us a luxo-barge with a $50K + price tag....sigh...

[dasbulliwagen]

Going to Chrysler trainings for the dealership, they say there are diesels in the works, a V6 from VM I think to replace the MB with better power and milage at a lower cost, the VM 4 cyl, and some Fiat diesels are in consideration and testing. And they say Cummins is bringing a diesel V8 to the Ram 1500 soon as well.

[Sir Sam]

WK2 CRDs are now shipping in Europe and AUS. Happy new owners are taking delivery.

 

 

237 hp/410 ft-lbs

(thats more torque than a 95 dodge ram with the cummins)

 

28 US MPG on the "combined" cycle

23 US MPG on the "urban" cycle (city)

33 US MPG on the "extra" urban (highway)

 

mk17TAlo_oc

 

 

 

The multi-award winning 2011 Jeep® Grand Cherokee is now available in Australia with a new 3.0-litre turbo diesel engine. The new engine is more powerful, more fuel efficient and produces lower emissions than its predecessor, while being able to tow up to 3,500kg.

 

“The arrival of the new turbo diesel is icing on the cake of the all-new Grand Cherokee range” said Dean Bonthorne, Chrysler Australia’s Senior Manager, Marketing & Corporate Communications.

“It’s no secret that Australians love a torquey, fuel-efficient diesel in this category, and just like so many other aspects of the Grand Cherokee, this highly anticipated new powerplant has exceeded all expectations.”

Built by VM Motori and developed together with Fiat Powertrain, a company of Fiat S.p.a., the new 3.0-litre turbo diesel engine produces 177 kW at 4,000 rpm with 550 Nm of torque at 1,800-2,800 rpm. This translates to 10 percent more power and eight percent more torque than the engine it replaces.

 

Even with its improved performance, fuel economy for the new 3.0-litre turbo diesel engine is 8.3 L/100km on the combined cycle, an improvement of 19 percent over the prior diesel engine. CO2 emissions (combined cycle) are also reduced by 20 percent, now at 218 g/km.

 

The V6 turbo diesel engine is fitted with new-generation, 1,800-bar injectors with new MultiJet II technology. This was developed and patented by Fiat Powertrain and which made its debut in 2009 on the 1.3-litre diesel engine equipped on the Punto Evo.

 

Engine Block Structure

The new 3.0-litre turbo diesel engine features a compressed graphite iron, 60-degree block with aluminium cylinder heads and a two-piece structural aluminium oil pan. Bore is 83 mm (3.27 in) and stroke is 92 mm (3.62 in) for a total displacement of 2987 cm3 (182 in3). Bore spacing is 96 mm (3.78 in).

 

The engine block features a crankcase architecture with stiffened construction, including a bedplate that provides a rigid and stiff carrier for the crankshaft. This in turn helps reduce overall noise from the lower reciprocating assembly and contributes to significant improvements in overall noise, vibration and harshness.

 

Engine Performance Features

The induction system includes swirl control to optimise combustion. Fitted between the intake system and the combustion chamber, the swirl control effectively provides an ideal air/fuel mixture at all levels of engine speed.

 

Precise fuel delivery is through a 1,800-bar common-rail fuel-injection system. Thanks to the new MultiJet II technology, which makes use of a special balanced solenoid valve, the new injector is capable of making up to eight injections per cycle with the possibility of managing the two main injections in a single modular profile (IRS – Injection Rate Shaping). This guarantees a reduction in consumption and polluting emissions of approximately two percent compared to a traditional injector and ensures a drastic reduction in noise levels.

 

 

Fuel Economy and Emissions

Fuel economy for the Jeep Grand Cherokee with the 3.0-litre turbo diesel engine is rated at 10.3 L/100 km on the urban cycle and 7.2 L/100 km on the extra-urban cycle. For the combined cycle, the fuel economy is rated at 8.3 L/100 km.

 

For this engine, cast-iron exhaust manifolds are utilised. Additional emissions controls include a close-coupled diesel oxidation catalyst and standard diesel particulate filter. Euro 5 emissions are met through an exhaust-gas recirculation (EGR) system that includes an EGR valve with DC motor and a high-performance EGR cooler with bypass valve.

 

CO2 emissions are reduced to 270 g/km for the urban cycle and 188 g/km for the extra-urban cycle. Combined-cycle CO2 emissions are now 218 g/km.

 

Lineup

Jeep Grand Cherokee is now offered in Australia in all trim lines, including Laredo, Limited and Overland. All models will offer this new 3.0-litre turbo diesel, while the Laredo and Limited come standard with the new 3.6-litre V6 Pentastar engine. The legendary 5.7-litre HEMI V8 is optional on Limited and standard on Overland.

 

The new diesel engine is now available in Jeep showrooms, joining two petrol engines to round out the powertrain lineup.

 

 

 

http://www.themotorreport.com.au/content/image/2/0/2011_jeep_grand_cherokee_australia_06-4d46277bbc50a.jpg

 

 

 

 

Specifications

3.0L DOHC 24-valve V6 Direct Injection Turbo Diesel (Outgoing 2010 model)

 

— Power (kW @ rpm) 177 @ 4,000 (MY10: 160@4,000)

— Torque (N.m @ rpm) 550 @ 1,800-2,800 (MY10: 510@1,600-2,400)

— Capacity (cm3) 2,987 (MY10: 2,987cc)

— Automatic transmission 5-speed (W5A580) with manual shift mode

 

Fuel consumption (L/100km)

— Urban cycle 10.3 (MY10: 13.1) 22.8MPG US

— Extra-urban cycle 7.2 (MY10: 8.6) 32.7MPG US

— Combined cycle 8.3 (MY10: 10.2) 28.3MPG US

Laredo 3L V6 $54167.7 AUD => Corrected to US Jeep lineup Pricing $34,388USD

 

Not bad if they offered it at that price here.

[Incommando]

A little searching showed the OZ Pentastar starting at $46K(aus) & the CRD at $56K (aus). :fs1: Even at 7 or 8 more MPG that would require a significant time to re-coup the cost. I honestly think if this ever came to market here, it would only be in the uplevel trims as I stated above.

 

That being said they would be stupid to have developed this engine without the US market in mind... but there is no assurance in that article that this motor is legal for sale in the U.S. or if it would make the same specs if it was "federalized." Not trying to be a wet blanket but considering how this has gone in the past...

 

Remember that Oz & Europe also has a much more significant diesel infrastructure. Even with the huge boom in the diesel light truck sales here, refueling in some areas can be dicey and generally comes with a pretty large penalty. I filled up with regular yesterday for $3.53/gal and the diesel was $4.09!! A major rip-off for diesel users.

 

I also wonder at the TQ. It seems overkill for a shortish wheelbased vehicle with a uni-body. The towing capacity for the Oz pentastar is 2,268 kg (5000 #'s in US) and for the Oz CRD is 3,500 kg, the same as the hemi (which is 7,500 #'s US). Although it does make more TQ than my 12-valve CTD dually did, don't be mad if I wouldn't attempt to tow the same loads with a WK2 as I did with my CTD. And speaking of torque, just what axles are they putting under this thing? How long would the IFS WK2 front last under a bit of a bind with 400+ pounds of torque?

 

Power is nice, but I think the Pentastar offers about the max that you would need/want in a Wrangler, for example. That V6 has better HP (290) than any jeep engine offered- even the top-dog 401 V8 (215). Rememeber that earlier, higher HP figures were calculated in a different manner and are not apples-to-apples with the figures from the early 70's to now.

 

Slightly de-tune this diesel (possibly with an accompanying increase in MPG?) and deliver it in a modestly equipped Wrangler at a competitive price and Jeep may be on to something. But don't be mad if I don't hold my breath waiting for it, especially in that configuration. :wall:

[Sir Sam]

3.53/4.09 is about 14% more and generally the highest you will ever see. Refueling has never been an issue for me, there is always diesel at every town you ever goto. Even the tinyest little podunk towns always have diesel. Sure not as many stations have diesel but there are so many gas stations everywhere that its not like you have to travel any further from home to get diesel.

 

As you will see above I calculated a corrected US market price based on the Aus diesel price. At that price point its a reasonable figure, if they decided not to mark it way way up.

[dasbulliwagen]

If the wrangler gets a diesel, it will be a 4 cylinder. I can't see them putting the 3.0 in it.

[Incommando]

Strangely my biggest difficulty in getting diesel has always been in larger suburban/urban areas and not outlaying areas. And that is where I have found the price to be the worst.

 

BTW: I did sign the petition. If Tony doesn't screw it up a decent diesel Jeep could be a hit, IMHO. Esepcially with a manual transmission ( my personal preference.)

[Sir Sam]

If the wrangler gets a diesel, it will be a 4 cylinder. I can't see them putting the 3.0 in it.

 

Fine by me, I love my 05 VM428, would love to have the 224/300ftlb VM428 Panther engine to play around with. Chrysler and VM have a long relationship, and the VM engines are solid units at a much better price than the Daimler diesels.

[Sir Sam]

Esepcially with a manual transmission ( my personal preference.)

 

I think thats even less realistic than hoping for a diesel. It is much easier to meet various emissions criteria with an auto than a manual. Heck even some of the new BMW diesel are only available with an auto in europe.

 

Also, look at the KK manual tranny discountinued in 08, now days you can get a manual in is the JK, and even those are getting rarer and rarer, and I doubt the compass and patriot have very many manual trannies, but who cares about those.

 

I wish we could see a breakdown of auto vs manual build by year. Because I'm pretty sure it would show a huge decrease in manual tranny production.

[Incommando]

Indeed there are many reasons for auto's. One, as stated, is that they are easier on EPA testing due to the shifting characteristics. A computer shifted auto removes the variables of the clutch in/ free rev of a manual tranny during the testing, for example. GM hasn't offered a manual tranny in their full sized trucks in years. :no: I personally used an auto ( but without any auto shift ability due to an aftermarket valvebody) in my bracket drag racer for their ease of repeatability and the lessened drive train shock when dealing with almost 600 #/ft of torque.

 

In a form I have bookmarked somewhere on one computer or another, 4wd 3.7/NSG370 KJ's made up 5% of the total sales of KJ's in 2005 :( .... but the 48:1 crawl ratio is really worth it if for no other reason. Many of us do not confine our "off roading" to unpaved roads and fire trails. Never overheated a manny tranny and cooked it and no coolers were needed...ever hear of anyone over heating and ruining an auto? Also more forgiving in deep water in most cases. .

 

To each his own, but the skill and pleasure from shifting it yourself is a hoot. And it is one step further away from the "push button A to climb hill" that so many people seem to require anymore. Yes, it is harder to drive a manual well. But isn't that a point in and of itself? A repeatable 18/24 MPG from a lifted KJ with heavy tires and rims is another. :cheers:

There are always envious jeepers when I fuel up half as often as much lighter 4.0/AW4 XJ's and the auto KJ's in the group.

 

I do believe that the CRD KJ Cherokee sold outside of N. America was available with a manual even if us "soft Americans" were deemed to want only an auto.

 

But this isn't about manny trannies per se, but diesel jeeps. I will start the pool by saying there will be no diesel Wrangler until at least 2014, if then. Any other prognosticators want to hazard a guess?

[Sir Sam]

The euro emissions have always lagged US emissions, meaning you could meet euro standards with a manual but not US. Hence the lack of the manual trans here.

 

Don't get me wrong, I prefer a manual for a DD Jeep, but when it comes time to wheel I prefer an auto.

[87Warrior]

You know, the Wrangler is the one I don't really care if it gets a diesel or not. The Grand and a truck should have a torque monster, the Liberty should have something like the KJ CRD and the Patriot needs a small turbo diesel that nets 40-50mpg.

[Sir Sam]

You know, the Wrangler is the one I don't really care if it gets a diesel or not. The Grand and a truck should have a torque monster, the Liberty should have something like the KJ CRD and the Patriot needs a small turbo diesel that nets 40-50mpg.

 

The Patriot is sold with a 2L TDI of VW origin in europe.