mythreesons Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Been a little cold here lately.........-11 degrees this morning when I left for work. On the way home, I hear from son #3 that Momma's 2002 GC won't start. He's tried jumping the battery, listening for the fuel pump, etc. but no luck. Ok, I look at it when I get home. Pull in and get the keys......Yep, fuel pump primes for a second or two......Try starting......Drag's a little even though the temp made it up to 20 today.....Fires up and starts. Hmmmmmmm? First thing I notice is that there is A LOT of noise from the lifters. Well, duh......the oil has to be like really, really cold...... give it a minute while I check the dipstick (which I knew would show oil on it because this Jeep hasn't been giving me problems). Sure enough, the oil level is right where it should be........Lifters still NOISY! I check the dash and the oil pressure is....... well, the needle hasn't moved since it started. Probably not good, so I shut it down. Looked underneath just to confirm that there is not a puddle nor a trail of oil, sure enough everything looks fine, albeit there is some snow pack under there from the latest 18-23 inches of snow that we got. Tried again, but the engine just turns over and will not fire. I don't think I have ever heard of cold "killing" a oil pump, but this GC is a just a 4.0 motor with a few extra fancy sensors so it shouldn't be too hard to diagnose. I will let it get warmer before I go any further (already dropping to 10 above zero tonite and supposed to be in the 40's and 50's the next few day's) so maybe I can see about it then. Good thing there are extra vehicles at my house. :D Too bad not all of them are drivable. :shake: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87Warrior Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Being an '02 it might have the dummy oil gauge, meaning it will read zero or perfect (I know my '03 is like this). Did the check gauges light come on? Check engine light? Flip the key to On three times and see if any codes show up. What kind of oil do you run in it? When I lived out in CO I had to fire up the TJ in many -15 degree days as well as some -25. Buurrrrr. Never had an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpdocdave Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Last year in the dead cold my dad had an issue with an old mazda truck I gave him for a farm vehicle. Turns out in the extreme cold the oil filter froze up, either moisture from condensation sitting in the filter, or the bypass valve froze open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mythreesons Posted February 11, 2011 Author Share Posted February 11, 2011 Brett, I am not sure what you are referencing (dummy oil gauge). The oil pressure indicator in the dash is the normal needle pointer which normally shows movement with engine rpms and oil viscosity. I really hesitate to say that it shows a pressure but rather it shows pressures at different conditions. Not an accurate reading, but rather an indicator of high pressure (start-up and cold engine) then lower after warm-up, movement with rpms, etc. As to oil, I am running Penz. 10W-30 with a Wix filter. It does show a check engine light, but I didn't fool with trying to get codes. I get home so late that I barely have time for evening chores before I run out of daylight. I have to work Friday and Saturday then on Sunday, son #1 is getting married so it'll have to be quick looks that I do once it warms up a little. There is a downside to this.........I told Momma to take my Jeep into town to do grocery shopping tonight. She just said that she likes driving my Jeep (95 XJ AW-4, 231). She said it in a way that sounded suspicious. I may be in trouble. :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87Warrior Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I would see what the codes are saying before thinking too much about it. Brett, I am not sure what you are referencing (dummy oil gauge). The oil pressure indicator in the dash is the normal needle pointer which normally shows movement with engine rpms and oil viscosity. I really hesitate to say that it shows a pressure but rather it shows pressures at different conditions. Not an accurate reading, but rather an indicator of high pressure (start-up and cold engine) then lower after warm-up, movement with rpms, etc. My 03 TJ has a 'dummy' oil pressure gauge. It looks like a normal needle pointer, but it will only position the needle in 3 positions, zero-normal-high. I guess Chrysler was tired of 4.0s coming in with fluctuating oil pressure gauges.. Here is a link to some of the dummy gauge information: http://www.rubiconownersforum.com/phpbb ... ock,+gauge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrawombat Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 So THAT'S why the oil pressure needle on my GFs TJ never moves. That always bugged me, but the thing only has 60K miles on it and sounds good so I just ignore it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mythreesons Posted February 12, 2011 Author Share Posted February 12, 2011 Well, I played with the "playing dead" GC a little this afternoon. Doesn't start still, codes show P0340 which is listed as possible camshaft position sensor problem, maybe O2 sensor heater problem, or oil pump and sensor problem (isn't that the same sensor?). Since I did get it to start that one time, but had no oil pressure that is the most likely place to start.........when I can get to it. Won't be tonight......Won't be tomorrow or Sunday either. Hmmm, I have to go to work all next week too. Maybe during the next weekend. Hope Momma doesn't mind being on foot for a little while. (He said with his tongue in his cheek.) We'll see what I find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87Warrior Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 The camshaft position sensor replaced the distributor and connects to the oil pump. Sounding like an oil pump failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alleydog Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 I agree that theres a problem with the oil pump or drive.Fords used to have a problem with the roll pin getting sheared off that holds the distributor drive gear from turning on the distributor shaft. I would pull the distributor out and see what broke, but the cam sensor needs to be timed and I don't know how to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrawombat Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 I agree that theres a problem with the oil pump or drive.Fords used to have a problem with the roll pin getting sheared off that holds the distributor drive gear from turning on the distributor shaft. I would pull the distributor out and see what broke, but the cam sensor needs to be timed and I don't know how to do that. With the #1 piston at TDC, look down the hole and see where the slot is and make sure that the camshaft position sensor will slide into it. Drop it down and on the metal casing for the sensor, there will be a small little hole. Insert a toothpick into this hole and move the camshaft position sensor back and forth until the toothpick passes through the alignment hole on the inner part. If the alignment hole on the inner part is on the opposite side, pull the camshaft position sensor out and turn the shaft 180 degrees. Confused? Good. Check out Figure 7 on page 3 of this link: http://motorage.search-autoparts.com/mo ... rticle.pdf Might be a good idea to read the whole article, too. However, this is all assuming everything in there is intact :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mythreesons Posted February 21, 2011 Author Share Posted February 21, 2011 Well, I went to the mechanic's shop and got a good look at the problem. (Actually he and I worked together as he has been swamped lately and I just don't have a lot of free time.) The roll pin that holds the drive gear in proper place on the bottom of the cam shaft position sensor.......sheared off. Just a little bit left in the shaft. There wasn't much wear on the drive for the oil pump, could have just put a new pin in and put it back, but decided to get a new one.....just because. The oil pump moves freely so we'll see when it gets put back together how things are. My other problem of the wife liking my XJ better than her WJ is on hold for now. Son #3 still wants to find a MJ with an AX-15 which would free up a vehicle...............then maybe I will trade with her.........if she makes a good offer.......maybe. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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