4wd.com is not a good company

[Incommando]

I have read bad reviews of this company, but as they are at least in-state I thought I would give them a shot.

 

I wanted an oil-fliter relocation kit for the MJ to get rid of the upside-down oil filter that the early 4.0 I6' came with originally. 4wd lists the exact same part, by #, as summitracing.com. 4wd.com loudly touts their excellent customer service and price-matching so I emailed them, correctly using their lengthy price match request process to a "t", to request said price match. This is what followed:

 

 

 

Initial response to my price match request: Thank you for requesting a price match from 4 Wheel Drive. All of us at 4 Wheel Drive want to earn your business. Please allow 24 hours for a response to your request (weekend and holiday emails will be answered the next business day).

 

Followed by:

In a message dated 7/22/2010 12:41:38 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jgarvin@4wd.com writes:

Don,

 

Unfortunately we don’t handle the oil filter relocation kit any longer, thanks for the inquiry.

 

Jim

 

Jim Garvin

 

Sales Representative

 

44488 State Route 14

 

Columbiana, OH 44408

 

800-333-5535 x806

 

Fax: 330-482-5035

 

Email: jgarvin@4wd.com

 

To which I replied:

 

Mr. Garvin:

 

I am writing to inform you that I have complaint regarding your false advertisement in regards to price matching and parts availability.

 

Instead of price-matching a product as I requested, you claimed that you no longer carry the product. However, a of today's date, you not only list the product but your site allows it to be purchased at your 20% higher cost than that of you competitor. http://www.4wd.com/shoppingcart.aspx

 

I find your business practices distasteful. I am certainly going to publicize your actions, including your email and a screen shot of your company allowing me to purchase the product (should I have wished to) at the original price after your claims that you no longer carry the product, to as wide an audience as possible via the Internet groups to which I belong. I am certain that you will claim that the product is not available, but even if that is true it speaks volumes about your customer service regarding the accuracy of your company's product claims, doesn't it?

 

 

 

Now, before anyone questions the length of time it takes to update an invettory count on a computerized ordering system or to remove items from a website, please note that I am in a managerial postion with a multi-billion dollar mail order company that relies heavily on an online catalog. It is a very simple process to have your inventory updated with each sale; your local autozone, et al...does it, as does your Kroger's or whatever. That would prevent the item from being ordered when it is out of stock. However, they WANT you to order it without knowing it is back ordered because their "friendly customer service" includes trying to trick you. 4wd.com is a large company with dozens of outlets: surely they have a full time IT/web department that can remove an item that they CLAIM they no longer carry with a few keystrokes, not a few weeks. Reputable companies doe it all of the time.

 

 

Buyer beware.

[87Warrior]

Sad to be disappointed in a localized company. Not surprised from the numerous reviews I have read about them.

 

I did enjoy the professionalism in your messages. Typically these threads are full of caps text and angry words. :thumbsup:

[Motion Offroad]

I'm assuming it's the Perma Cool kit (PN PMA10695)?

 

They are correct in telling you that it is no longer carried by them. Here is directly from their system;

 

Other Stores Available

Transamerican #1 Compton 0

Transamerican #6 Texas 0

Transamerican #8 Florida 0

Transamerican #9 Denver 0

Transamerican #10 Arizona 0

Transamerican #107 MDC 0

Transamerican #111 RDC 0

4 Wheel Drive Hardware 0

 

**THIS ITEM IS NO LONGER AVAILABLE**

[Rymanrph]

Yeah, I hate ordering from them and after paying find out that what I bought is on backorder. They are owned by the same company as 4 Wheel Parts. I've had both good and bad experiences with them.

[MjPioneer]

That's odd, I have had nothing but good luck with them.

[Incommando]

To follow up, Mr Garvin replied that the product is only available in bulk form and he "knew" I only wanted one of them. However, he then continues that the price on the website for a single kit is $59.99 and it is available that way...WTH? Why are you listing a single item when you can only buy it by the case? the answer, of course, is that you do not have to buy a case

 

Don,

 

When I checked your price match in my ordering system it indicated no longer available due to issues from a recent merger with a company we recently joined with. They had entered the NLA information because

 

That item was only available in bulk form for a while and I knew you didn’t need a case of them. It is still available as a special order item, we don’t stock it here but I can order it in. The price match you indicate

 

As our competitor is actually us, we are 4wd.com and I’ll need the info on where you had seen the item at a lower price, ours is $59.99. When it is entered into the cart so see any price break it stays at $59.99.

 

The number once again is PMA10695.

 

-Jim

 

 

To which I responded:

 

You do not list them by the case on the web site: you list them by the single piece and your company allowed me to add one to my cart today. That is the link I included in my prior email. I carried the transaction as far as possible before actual purchase. If you are aware that the product is only available in case form, or not at all, why are you still deceptively advertising this item for single purchase? I will repeat the YOU ARE AWARE of the issue yet allow the condition to continue. Your company will allow me to purchase the part today, just as it would the day that I made the price match request. That fact makes it look like you are either dodging a price match or you are trying to get people to give you money for a product that you cannot provide it a timely manner, but for which you will gladly hold onto the money. You even acknowledge in your email, buy saying you checked the web site, that the product that you "no longer carry" (your words) is being offered for sale, and singularly not in bulk as you claim. Fairly contradictory, yes?

 

In my initial email contact requesting the price match I included a link, as requested, for summitracing.com and the exact part # being sold for $47.95: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PRM-10695/. Perhaps the true story here is that you use your own part # in a SKU fashion to avoid the price match. Perma-cool's number is 10695. The prefix of PRM or PMA is, according to perma-cool, the designation that YOUR company uses to identify the product line internally. It is a sweet deal when you make up your own numbers so that you will never need to price match. I think it is clear that the 10695 kit by perma-cool is the same from your site to Summit's and any claims to the contrary are an attempt at misdirection at best.

[kyleag89]

I don't understand why you don't just buy it from Summit? I mean why are you going through all the trouble of emailing back and forth with 4wd.com? Why not just buy from Summit?

[87Warrior]

I don't understand why you don't just buy it from Summit? I mean why are you going through all the trouble of emailing back and forth with 4wd.com? Why not just buy from Summit?

This is my philosophy regarding price matching. Buy from the company without all of the annoying price match bull. I have never found myself in a situation where I needed to force a the 'other company' to price match in order to get the product.

[Comanche County]

Not sure if I'm following right, but I read you want to just get rid of the renix style upside down filter. I did it on my 89' based on this http://www.madxj.com/MADXJ/technical/te ... ersion.htm. I did have to get a part from the dealership but it wasn't expensive. All the part numbers are available at the dealer or any local auto parts store.

[Incommando]

Thanks for the tip. I actually wanted to go with the relocation kit to make it easy to add an oil cooler. I have a couple of small tranny coolers laying around and I was going to plumb one into the oil system.

 

I won a $50 gift card from 4wd as a door prize at a jeep event. I wanted to use it up.

 

SO, to make things worse:

 

I place an order for some bumper end caps and the like, trying to get as close to $50 as possible as at this point I do not want to really do business with 4wd/4wheelparts same people.

 

My total with shipping and tax =

 

Subtotal: $42.35

Shipping: $9.99

Tax: $3.99

Gift Card ***************9471 Applied: -$50.00

Grand Total: $6.33

 

I have to add my debit card for the remaining $6.33 and authorized ONLY that amount. Guess what? The thieving bastids charged all $56.33 to my debit card! A totally unauthorized charge.

 

So I emailed them:

 

Folks, we have a serious issue here with you making an unauthorized deduction from my account. This receipt shows that you were authorized to deduct $6.33 from my account. You in fact deducted the entire $56.33. This deduction is fraudulent and completely unauthorized. I expect the stolen $50.00 to be credited to my account IMMEDIATELY.

Subtotal: $42.35

Shipping: $9.99

Tax: $3.99

Gift Card ***************9471 Applied: -$50.00

Grand Total: $6.33

 

 

And from my account:

 

7/28/2010 Deb Card Withdrawal X TO S008 718025 *POS* 4 WHEEL DRIVE #823 COLUMBIANA OH 000 ($56.33)

Blue = copy & paste from actual documents

 

There was a phone conversation saying that I should relex, they do this on EVERY gift card charge and that within 3 or 4 business days the $50 will be returned! I go through the roof and they insist it is their standard practice. They say if I do all of the leg work to get a form from my bank saying that the charge was unauthorized and fax it to them, they would sign it and fax it to my bank in the hope that it would speed up the refund process. WTH?

 

Their email response:

 

The entire amount deducted is a pre-authorization only. The funds will release back into the account within 24-48 hours. If you need the funds released sooner we would need to know what information the bank needs from us, a contact name, and fax or e-mail address. I am sorry for the confusion and inconvenience.

 

Thank you,

Judy

4WD Customer Service

 

 

These people are thieves. Their charging my card is illegal and not standard industry practice.

[MrFreeze5]

By that logic, the gas station harbors thieving bastards then because they all pre-authorize for a specified amount. You arent actually charged that amount since it has not been deducted from your account, but the amount is put on hold until the transaction is completed. Pre-auth holds rarely last longer than 24hrs in my experience. The reason they do it is likely because they do not actually process the payment until the item is packaged for shipment. The one exception I have had is a company that will pre-auth your sale, and then the item is on backorder, but they don't actually bill you until the item ships. I ordered some items from Jegs a few weeks ago and my bank statement showed a deduction in the total amount of the sale, but only a few of the items shipped. After a day, the pre-auths cleared and I had only been billed for about half my total order that they had in stock and shipped out. Once the BO items came in, I was charged for those items and they were shipped to me. But the final total cost was actually different than the pre-auth charge(it was lower).

[dakal]

http://www.madxj.com/MADXJ/technical/te ... ersion.htm.

 

 

thanks for the info. :waving: