JOMJ87 Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 Hey guys i know there are some bif fabbers on here and i was wandering who has made either fixed or adjustable UPPER control arms for there rig or others and if you have pics and descriptions please post them. I was going for Square stock 3/8 wall 2x2 for the body but unsure of the end. I think i asked this before but iam getting a new welder and have alot of stuff to do I.E. rock rails, external cage, finish tube doors, and bumpers and have decided on designs for most of this and have material so this is my last check off before starting fab. Just trying to get all my ducks in a row so it is semi smooth going and not to much down time between projects or during for last minute planning. Thanks Cole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pingpong Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 It all depends if you are going to make it adjustable, or not. It also depends on what your budget is. There are some pretty expenive ends out there. RE makes some nice builder joints that might be right up your alley. They also sell all kinds of other good stuff. I have to ask you why you are using 2x2 for your uppers, you can get away with DOM probrably for about the same amount of money being it isn't going to be but so long. Also just cause you bought a welder doent mean I would start fabbing suspension parts, or cages quite yet :brows: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyComanche Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 I'd 'suggest' Use 2x2x.250 HSS for the main body. Weld a 1" fine thread grade 8 nut to each end. Weld 1" fine thread grade 8 rod to a joint of your choise. Thread a nut onto rod on joint, thread rod into main body, since down nut at desired length... Plenty strong for a UCA. Actually, overkill. The joints are the expensive part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JOMJ87 Posted September 6, 2006 Author Share Posted September 6, 2006 I have to ask you why you are using 2x2 for your uppers, you can get away with DOM probrably for about the same amount of money being it isn't going to be but so long. Also just cause you bought a welder doent mean I would start fabbing suspension parts, or cages quite yet :brows: First part is that i already have the 2x2 and i thought it would be fine to work with. I have thought of DOM and the weld on tube ends with a superflex joint on the truck side but i wanted to know how everyone else has done it or any ideas.I think the 2x2 might be just wide enough for added reinforcement on the end and slip in to place for the axle mount if i use tube i would have to weld a peice of some kind of box on the end and then make sure i used gussets to feel good about it not stressing to much. For your second part...I have been welding for awhile now and have learned alot from my dad who is a tool and die guy and one of his friends that welds for a living at his job. I also have a fair amount of experience behind a mask myself, I welded alot of the initial lift components that i did before and they worked great no problems at all. I even peiced a driveshaft together and had no vibrations. The comment about getting a welder is because i joined the airforce and left my old welder back home for my dad so i didnt have access to one at my house where i live and my truck is here so I couldnt do any fab work and feel confortable with it fitting properly. I know I'm young and I DO NOT have as much experience as alot of the fabbers on here including you and thats why i ask so many questions so that people like you can help me get it right the first time. Thanks for all the input and I don't think you are talking down on me i understand your just trying to make sure that i don't KILL myself and i Appreciate all the input. Thanks Cole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyComanche Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 HSS (Square tube) is fine for control arms, rest assured. It won't be the weak part. But, I would say if you can get DOM in the size you need (that's the tricky part) without a minimum length fee, and a tape to thread it, that would be better. Actually finding the 3-4' of DOM you need without having to buy a 20' stick is unlikely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JOMJ87 Posted September 6, 2006 Author Share Posted September 6, 2006 I have a few resources here on base ;) so i will see what they have or can get really cheap or in short lengths of the DOM since that seems the choice of all of you guys. If that falls threw i will stick to the square. Thanks for the input. Cole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyComanche Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 I'm a square guy myself... Even though I can get the DOM (relativly) cheap. Square is fine as long as you accept the limitations of it and work around them. Basically, put the flat side down. And you can't thread it. It won't be the weak link, the rod for the joint will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JOMJ87 Posted September 6, 2006 Author Share Posted September 6, 2006 I was thinking of using a square nut and getting it as close to the same size of the square tube and welding that on the end. And for my joints i was thinking these top links for a tractor. I would just use the ends cause they have threaded rods on the plus you can get super strong ones for huge tractors. The only problem with them is they are loud cause they have NO bushing they are metal on metal with just a grease joint. I have seen several setups using these and i used them initially on my truck for lowers. Plus they are cheap. I helped a guy setup a homemade long arm kit on a CJ that had a built 350 in and he said he never uses anything else for his jeeps or Trail buggies. Cole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87manche Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 that looks like a heim joint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JOMJ87 Posted September 6, 2006 Author Share Posted September 6, 2006 I think they are but cheaper and stronger than most out there :cheers: . I know of some people who have to rebuild there superflex joints after every trip but i think they have something wrong in there design. PLus these are cheap and strong oh did i already say that :brows: because they are for heavy duty tractors to use. Cole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pingpong Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 Cole, I wasn't talking down to you. The way you were talking was as if you never did any fab work before. I appologise if I offended you. You can buy RE adjustables for around 125 a set. That being said. RE super flex joints are around 30 bucks a piece. Quality hiems are around 20. Problem with hiems is like you said nosiy loud, and they transmit vibes just like the Re jointys can as well. Have you thought abouth using leaf sping bushings at the axle end? They are cheaper, and while they will not last forever, they will last you long enough for what you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JOMJ87 Posted September 6, 2006 Author Share Posted September 6, 2006 I wasnt offended at all, I respect you as one of the senior builders on this site and alot of my posts where a question about fab are there so i can learn from people like you that have done the type of work i am asking about. I understand completely where you were coming from and i would have felt the same way if i was you when i read it. I just wrote that last email explaining myself just so you didnt think i was a complete idiot and i actually do have an idea of what I'm doing not because i was upset with you. Anyway back to the arms..........So you think a good maybe even poly spring bushing would work well? what do yall feel is best for this aplication. i thought of cutting the ends of of some stock one and then pieceing them in to the tube but i don't think the host material on the stock ones would be a good base for welding. Thanks to everyone for all your input. Cole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feerocknok Posted September 7, 2006 Share Posted September 7, 2006 Your weakest point is the strength value of your arms. (Unexperienced me says...) A poly bushing is less likely to rip to shreds, but is also going to bind. If your tractor joint does enough, I'd think it'd be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyComanche Posted September 7, 2006 Share Posted September 7, 2006 Those tractor joints are NOT designed for use on a vehicle that sees street. I mean that as in they will wear extremely quickly with the combination of getting dirty and the high freequency vibrations caused by traveling at speed. Doesn't mean you can't use 'em. Personally, I'd look around. There's some nice rebuildable joints out there for not much money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot Rod Jeep Posted September 7, 2006 Share Posted September 7, 2006 I like poly's better than rubber, but a friend of mine had some poly's that just crumbled for some reason. It almost made me wanna go back to rubber, but I haven't had any bad luck with them myself. 8) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regger Posted September 7, 2006 Share Posted September 7, 2006 A buddy designed a rear 4-link setup using square stock. And it held up to as much abuse as this guy could put it through.. And he wasnt easy on it, as he wheels on the island here which has some of the best and toughest rockcrawling in this corner of the country!!! As well, he used stock rubber leaf spring bushings (for a toyota Land Cruiser) on the axle and stock ford radius arm bushings at the frame. This thing flexed real well, and had almost zero road vibrations.. Yeah the rubber wears out faster than poly, or heims, but at $2 ea, he could afford to replace them. Plus every single parts store will carry them from here to tim-buck-too!!! so no matter where you are, you can always get your hands on some. But these things are tiny, compared to some of the bushings out there... I'm still deciding on these myself.. The only bad thing about using rubber, is if your links are not 100% inline with zero binding, you will have serious wear issues as well as binding issues... My plan at the moment is to use square stock and these rubber bushings, but I am not 100% confident on how my alignment will end up with my long arm design.. This is a first for me for this type of fab work that requires such precision... I've done SAS's with Leafs and shackles with awesome results, but this is the first time I'm diving into the 4-link design... With that being said, I've found some cheap ball socket joints that allow over 20* or articulation and are less than $20 each. This would definetly solve my alignment issues, but like the tractor links, have zero vibration absorbtion... But since this is no longer a DD... that isnt a huge concern... AS well, I'm also contemplating round stock as well.. Although not the super expensive DOM, but the more economically priced ERW tubing. And having access to a lathe, I can cut my own threads, so the thicker I can get the tubing the better... which will make up for any strength difference the DOM has over ERW But then again comes another decision... do I want fixed links which offer zero flex due to them being one solid piece, but requires very precise calculations and welding, or do I go with the threaded inserts that offer adjustablitly but that can also provide flex from the threads and an area that can fail.. So I myself have some serious thinking to do ,yself on how I want to build this MJ... Sorry JOMJ87 for taking up a huge part of your thread with my banter.. I hope some of it helps you with you decision as well... Thanks, Ryan[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JOMJ87 Posted September 7, 2006 Author Share Posted September 7, 2006 That is no problem about the length of your post you have given me alot of info on what to use. But i do have 1 question How would you attach the bushings to the square stock? would you hole saw it and then sleeve it for the bushing or what? Thanks for the input. Cole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regger Posted September 8, 2006 Share Posted September 8, 2006 Basically, yeah, just hole saw the end of the square stock, and then weld on the pipe (I think its a sch 80, or 40, that fits the rubber bushings perfectly) and Bobs your uncle... (or in my case, my Dad).. Its exactly the same as if using round stock, just that its sqaure.. So it makes notching it a little more tricky but still doable... HTH Ryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pingpong Posted September 8, 2006 Share Posted September 8, 2006 I know ppl are going to bag on my suspension set-up, but I use the Terra flex Long arm upgrade kit. It uses poly bushings at both ends :eek: BUt it is also a parrallel 4 link, and works well for what it is. It is all about what you want to spend. a Johnny joint, or similar style at one end and a poly bushing at the other is perfectly acceptable, as long as you link alignment is good. Don't forget that you still want your link ends in phase with each other, so you don't use up valuable flex even before you get on the trail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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