Timmaay Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 I need help with what is causing my belt to wander around and cause that annoying whine. Here are some symptoms: It only whines at idle, completely goes away with any throttle. Only whines when engine is warmed up. Belt tension is 150lbs (verified with Krikit II). The harmonic ballancer, AC, and waterpump pulley's appear to spin perfectly true. The idler pulley and power steering seem to have slight wobbles. Here is the video: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvusse Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 I'm guessing the idler pulley needs a new bearing. After attempting to order a $20 pulley from the parts store twice, and twice getting one that wouldn't fit, I went to TSC and bought just the bearing for $6.29. I believe the number for the bearing is 6203, but beware, there are two versions of this bearing. One has a 17mm center hole (the one you need), one has a 5/8" center hole, which will not fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpdocdave Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 looks like idler is no good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmaay Posted August 27, 2009 Author Share Posted August 27, 2009 I'm guessing the idler pulley needs a new bearing. After attempting to order a $20 pulley from the parts store twice, and twice getting one that wouldn't fit, I went to TSC and bought just the bearing for $6.29. I believe the number for the bearing is 6203, but beware, there are two versions of this bearing. One has a 17mm center hole (the one you need), one has a 5/8" center hole, which will not fit. Thanks for the advice, but I just bought the bearing you said (6203 with the 17mm) and it doesn't fit :doh: you must have gotten the sizes flipped, or mine is different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmaay Posted August 28, 2009 Author Share Posted August 28, 2009 Ok, I put on a brand new idler pulley and bearing; the noise is still there. Although the new pulley doesn't wobble at all like the previous one. Any more ideas? :hmm: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpdocdave Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 when you had the belt off did you check all the other pullies for play? you need a new belt also, that one was all worn on the inside, but that probably won't be the only thing causing that noise. that new water pump pulley is tight? there's been plenty of bad parts out of the box Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOrnbrod Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 Old trick that has always worked for me tracing down belt/pulley noises: Get a short piece of 1/2" or so heater hose, ram one end in your ear, start the engine, then place the other end near each pully, including the harmonic balancer. The offending pulley usually becomes very evident. :cheers: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvusse Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 5/8" is 15.9 mm. 17mm is closer to 11/16". If the hole in the bearing is too small, it is 5/8". You can check with a tape measure. Both my 87 Comanche and 94 Cherokee use 17mm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmaay Posted August 28, 2009 Author Share Posted August 28, 2009 when you had the belt off did you check all the other pullies for play? you need a new belt also, that one was all worn on the inside, but that probably won't be the only thing causing that noise. that new water pump pulley is tight? there's been plenty of bad parts out of the box I didn't check the pulleys this time but when I put the waterpump on I checked all the pulleys. I'm pretty sure they were all good. It's not a new waterpump pulley, I don't think they sell new ones. Yes it is good and tight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmaay Posted August 28, 2009 Author Share Posted August 28, 2009 Old trick that has always worked for me tracing down belt/pulley noises: Get a short piece of 1/2" or so heater hose, ram one end in your ear, start the engine, then place the other end near each pully, including the harmonic balancer. The offending pulley usually becomes very evident. :cheers: Using this trick confirmed that it is coming from the waterpump area... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpdocdave Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 when you had the belt off did you check all the other pullies for play? you need a new belt also, that one was all worn on the inside, but that probably won't be the only thing causing that noise. that new water pump pulley is tight? there's been plenty of bad parts out of the box I didn't check the pulleys this time but when I put the waterpump on I checked all the pulleys. I'm pretty sure they were all good. It's not a new waterpump pulley, I don't think they sell new ones. Yes it is good and tight. the water pump looked newer to me, and i thought you said you replaced the water pump. obviously the pulley is replaced as a unit with the water pump all as one. not serperate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmaay Posted August 28, 2009 Author Share Posted August 28, 2009 when you had the belt off did you check all the other pullies for play? you need a new belt also, that one was all worn on the inside, but that probably won't be the only thing causing that noise. that new water pump pulley is tight? there's been plenty of bad parts out of the box I didn't check the pulleys this time but when I put the waterpump on I checked all the pulleys. I'm pretty sure they were all good. It's not a new waterpump pulley, I don't think they sell new ones. Yes it is good and tight. the water pump looked newer to me, and i thought you said you replaced the water pump. obviously the pulley is replaced as a unit with the water pump all as one. not serperate. Sorry for the confusion. Yes, the waterpump is new, the waterpump pulley is not. This pump I bought from NAPA didn't come with a new pulley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpdocdave Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 right, the pulley itself gets reused, but the bearing and flange the pulley bolts to is part of the pump obviously. thats usually whats bad. keep in mind overtightening the belt will cause bearings to fail prematurely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOrnbrod Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 Agree. Water pump pulleys can be had, but I don't think you need one if it's tight on the shaft w. no wobbles or chips out of it. You did press it on the pump shaft properly w/o the use of a BFH? :cheers: If you are sure the noise is coming from the H2O pump and it's a new one, sounds like bad bearings. NAPA should give you a replacement, si? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmaay Posted August 29, 2009 Author Share Posted August 29, 2009 right, the pulley itself gets reused, but the bearing and flange the pulley bolts to is part of the pump obviously. thats usually whats bad. keep in mind overtightening the belt will cause bearings to fail prematurely. Yeah the belt was actually a little loose before I got the I got the gauge to set the correct tension. So I don't think over-tightening was the cause. I originally thought that the noise was coming from my old water pump bearings, so I replaced it with this waterpump I have now. The initial test drive was promising, for the first ten miles everything was silent. Then the noise came back :wall: . So maybe I just got a bad pump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmaay Posted August 29, 2009 Author Share Posted August 29, 2009 Agree. Water pump pulleys can be had, but I don't think you need one if it's tight on the shaft w. no wobbles or chips out of it. You did press it on the pump shaft properly w/o the use of a BFH? :cheers: If you are sure the noise is coming from the H2O pump and it's a new one, sounds like bad bearings. NAPA should give you a replacement, si? I didn't press on the pulley, I just tightened the bolts down. It was a non-sledge event :D And yeah I can get a new pump since it came with a lifetime warranty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOrnbrod Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 I didn't press on the pulley, I just tightened the bolts down. It was a non-sledge event :D And yeah I can get a new pump since it came with a lifetime warranty. Brain phart - thinking power steering pump pulley since I have been working that lately. :doh: But yeah, must be the water pump bearings. Was it a "remanufactured" pump? They are well known for being bad right out of the box, even directly from Mopar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmaay Posted August 29, 2009 Author Share Posted August 29, 2009 I didn't press on the pulley, I just tightened the bolts down. It was a non-sledge event :D And yeah I can get a new pump since it came with a lifetime warranty. Brain phart - thinking power steering pump pulley since I have been working that lately. :doh: But yeah, must be the water pump bearings. Was it a "remanufactured" pump? They are well known for being bad right out of the box, even directly from Mopar. You know I can't remember if it was a remanufactured or not. Something tells me it was a new one though. Well, I know what I'm working on tomorrow. I'll let you guys know how it goes after I try another pump. Thanks for all the help so far guys :thumbsup: I'm sure we'll get it done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmaay Posted September 3, 2009 Author Share Posted September 3, 2009 Ok, finally was able to get the water pump swapped. Had a bunch of hangups, but I got it done. Started it up and the engine is super quiet and running extremely smooth! :D The belt is not wandering at all! I can only hope that this will last. But, what if the bearings on this pump fail too. Then what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOrnbrod Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 But, what if the bearings on this pump fail too. Then what? No way of telling mate. I don't like "rebuilt" or "remanufactured" parts, always buy new stuff if available, but w. our old junk, it's not always possible. Sure the vendor guarantees the part, but something like a waterpump is a major PITA if you have to swap it out 3-4 times before it's finally right. I'd rather spend the extra $$ to get a new or NOS OEM part if available and save myself the aggravation and/or possible engine damage. Hope it lasts a looooong time. :cheers: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmaay Posted September 3, 2009 Author Share Posted September 3, 2009 But, what if the bearings on this pump fail too. Then what? No way of telling mate. I don't like "rebuilt" or "remanufactured" parts, always buy new stuff if available, but w. our old junk, it's not always possible. Sure the vendor guarantees the part, but something like a waterpump is a major PITA if you have to swap it out 3-4 times before it's finally right. I'd rather spend the extra $$ to get a new or NOS OEM part if available and save myself the aggravation and/or possible engine damage. Hope it lasts a looooong time. :cheers: Thanks for the kind words Hornbrod. I just found out how long this one will last before it starts squeaking. 3 miles!!!! :wall: :wall: :wall: This pisses me off. The only thing I think it could possibly be is the power steering pulley. It has a slight wobble to it. Perhaps causing the waterpumps to die? :???: How hard is it to replace one of those, I know you were talking about having to press one on earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmaay Posted September 5, 2009 Author Share Posted September 5, 2009 Good news, I took the Jeep over to a neighbors house and he pointed out that the harmonic balancer has moved out quite a bit. You can definitely see that it doesn't sit flush and that the rubber is a little dislodged. What appears to be happening is that since the harmonic balancer is moved out it is pulling the belt out with it causing the belt to slip and whine on the waterpump pulley. So, we are going to give that a shot tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmaay Posted September 6, 2009 Author Share Posted September 6, 2009 :banana: All fixed! It was the harmonic balancer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOrnbrod Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 Got 'er done. Congrats. :cheers: Was the HB visibly wobbling under an extreem eyeball test at varying RPM, or just visible deteriorated rubber? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmaay Posted September 6, 2009 Author Share Posted September 6, 2009 Got 'er done. Congrats. :cheers: Was the HB visibly wobbling under an extreem eyeball test at varying RPM, or just visible deteriorated rubber? Thanks. Yeah, it was spinning perfectly true and the rubber was the only give away. Well, and the fact that the pulley had managed to walk out about 1/8" from flush. But since I didn't know what a good one was supposed to look like, I didn't really suspect it. But now I know and will always know. :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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