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Belt wandering and whining, need help. With Video.


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I need help with what is causing my belt to wander around and cause that annoying whine.

 

Here are some symptoms:

 

It only whines at idle, completely goes away with any throttle.

Only whines when engine is warmed up.

Belt tension is 150lbs (verified with Krikit II).

The harmonic ballancer, AC, and waterpump pulley's appear to spin perfectly true.

The idler pulley and power steering seem to have slight wobbles.

 

Here is the video:

 

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I'm guessing the idler pulley needs a new bearing. After attempting to order a $20 pulley from the parts store twice, and twice getting one that wouldn't fit, I went to TSC and bought just the bearing for $6.29.

 

I believe the number for the bearing is 6203, but beware, there are two versions of this bearing. One has a 17mm center hole (the one you need), one has a 5/8" center hole, which will not fit.

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I'm guessing the idler pulley needs a new bearing. After attempting to order a $20 pulley from the parts store twice, and twice getting one that wouldn't fit, I went to TSC and bought just the bearing for $6.29.

 

I believe the number for the bearing is 6203, but beware, there are two versions of this bearing. One has a 17mm center hole (the one you need), one has a 5/8" center hole, which will not fit.

 

Thanks for the advice, but I just bought the bearing you said (6203 with the 17mm) and it doesn't fit :doh: you must have gotten the sizes flipped, or mine is different.

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when you had the belt off did you check all the other pullies for play? you need a new belt also, that one was all worn on the inside, but that probably won't be the only thing causing that noise. that new water pump pulley is tight? there's been plenty of bad parts out of the box

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Old trick that has always worked for me tracing down belt/pulley noises: Get a short piece of 1/2" or so heater hose, ram one end in your ear, start the engine, then place the other end near each pully, including the harmonic balancer. The offending pulley usually becomes very evident. :cheers:

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when you had the belt off did you check all the other pullies for play? you need a new belt also, that one was all worn on the inside, but that probably won't be the only thing causing that noise. that new water pump pulley is tight? there's been plenty of bad parts out of the box

 

I didn't check the pulleys this time but when I put the waterpump on I checked all the pulleys. I'm pretty sure they were all good. It's not a new waterpump pulley, I don't think they sell new ones. Yes it is good and tight.

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Old trick that has always worked for me tracing down belt/pulley noises: Get a short piece of 1/2" or so heater hose, ram one end in your ear, start the engine, then place the other end near each pully, including the harmonic balancer. The offending pulley usually becomes very evident. :cheers:

Using this trick confirmed that it is coming from the waterpump area...

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when you had the belt off did you check all the other pullies for play? you need a new belt also, that one was all worn on the inside, but that probably won't be the only thing causing that noise. that new water pump pulley is tight? there's been plenty of bad parts out of the box

 

I didn't check the pulleys this time but when I put the waterpump on I checked all the pulleys. I'm pretty sure they were all good. It's not a new waterpump pulley, I don't think they sell new ones. Yes it is good and tight.

 

the water pump looked newer to me, and i thought you said you replaced the water pump. obviously the pulley is replaced as a unit with the water pump all as one. not serperate.

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when you had the belt off did you check all the other pullies for play? you need a new belt also, that one was all worn on the inside, but that probably won't be the only thing causing that noise. that new water pump pulley is tight? there's been plenty of bad parts out of the box

 

I didn't check the pulleys this time but when I put the waterpump on I checked all the pulleys. I'm pretty sure they were all good. It's not a new waterpump pulley, I don't think they sell new ones. Yes it is good and tight.

 

the water pump looked newer to me, and i thought you said you replaced the water pump. obviously the pulley is replaced as a unit with the water pump all as one. not serperate.

 

Sorry for the confusion. Yes, the waterpump is new, the waterpump pulley is not. This pump I bought from NAPA didn't come with a new pulley.

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Agree. Water pump pulleys can be had, but I don't think you need one if it's tight on the shaft w. no wobbles or chips out of it. You did press it on the pump shaft properly w/o the use of a BFH? :cheers: If you are sure the noise is coming from the H2O pump and it's a new one, sounds like bad bearings. NAPA should give you a replacement, si?

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right, the pulley itself gets reused, but the bearing and flange the pulley bolts to is part of the pump obviously. thats usually whats bad. keep in mind overtightening the belt will cause bearings to fail prematurely.

 

Yeah the belt was actually a little loose before I got the I got the gauge to set the correct tension. So I don't think over-tightening was the cause.

 

I originally thought that the noise was coming from my old water pump bearings, so I replaced it with this waterpump I have now. The initial test drive was promising, for the first ten miles everything was silent. Then the noise came back :wall: . So maybe I just got a bad pump.

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Agree. Water pump pulleys can be had, but I don't think you need one if it's tight on the shaft w. no wobbles or chips out of it. You did press it on the pump shaft properly w/o the use of a BFH? :cheers: If you are sure the noise is coming from the H2O pump and it's a new one, sounds like bad bearings. NAPA should give you a replacement, si?

 

I didn't press on the pulley, I just tightened the bolts down. It was a non-sledge event :D

And yeah I can get a new pump since it came with a lifetime warranty.

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I didn't press on the pulley, I just tightened the bolts down. It was a non-sledge event :D

And yeah I can get a new pump since it came with a lifetime warranty.

 

Brain phart - thinking power steering pump pulley since I have been working that lately. :doh: But yeah, must be the water pump bearings. Was it a "remanufactured" pump? They are well known for being bad right out of the box, even directly from Mopar.

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I didn't press on the pulley, I just tightened the bolts down. It was a non-sledge event :D

And yeah I can get a new pump since it came with a lifetime warranty.

 

Brain phart - thinking power steering pump pulley since I have been working that lately. :doh: But yeah, must be the water pump bearings. Was it a "remanufactured" pump? They are well known for being bad right out of the box, even directly from Mopar.

 

You know I can't remember if it was a remanufactured or not. Something tells me it was a new one though. Well, I know what I'm working on tomorrow. I'll let you guys know how it goes after I try another pump. Thanks for all the help so far guys :thumbsup: I'm sure we'll get it done.

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Ok, finally was able to get the water pump swapped. Had a bunch of hangups, but I got it done.

Started it up and the engine is super quiet and running extremely smooth! :D The belt is not wandering at all! I can only hope that this will last.

 

But, what if the bearings on this pump fail too. Then what?

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But, what if the bearings on this pump fail too. Then what?

 

No way of telling mate. I don't like "rebuilt" or "remanufactured" parts, always buy new stuff if available, but w. our old junk, it's not always possible. Sure the vendor guarantees the part, but something like a waterpump is a major PITA if you have to swap it out 3-4 times before it's finally right. I'd rather spend the extra $$ to get a new or NOS OEM part if available and save myself the aggravation and/or possible engine damage. Hope it lasts a looooong time. :cheers:

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But, what if the bearings on this pump fail too. Then what?

 

No way of telling mate. I don't like "rebuilt" or "remanufactured" parts, always buy new stuff if available, but w. our old junk, it's not always possible. Sure the vendor guarantees the part, but something like a waterpump is a major PITA if you have to swap it out 3-4 times before it's finally right. I'd rather spend the extra $$ to get a new or NOS OEM part if available and save myself the aggravation and/or possible engine damage. Hope it lasts a looooong time. :cheers:

 

Thanks for the kind words Hornbrod.

 

I just found out how long this one will last before it starts squeaking. 3 miles!!!! :wall: :wall: :wall: This pisses me off.

 

The only thing I think it could possibly be is the power steering pulley. It has a slight wobble to it. Perhaps causing the waterpumps to die? :???: How hard is it to replace one of those, I know you were talking about having to press one on earlier.

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Good news, I took the Jeep over to a neighbors house and he pointed out that the harmonic balancer has moved out quite a bit. You can definitely see that it doesn't sit flush and that the rubber is a little dislodged. What appears to be happening is that since the harmonic balancer is moved out it is pulling the belt out with it causing the belt to slip and whine on the waterpump pulley. So, we are going to give that a shot tomorrow.

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Got 'er done. Congrats. :cheers: Was the HB visibly wobbling under an extreem eyeball test at varying RPM, or just visible deteriorated rubber?

 

Thanks. Yeah, it was spinning perfectly true and the rubber was the only give away. Well, and the fact that the pulley had managed to walk out about 1/8" from flush. But since I didn't know what a good one was supposed to look like, I didn't really suspect it. But now I know and will always know. :thumbsup:

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