Rear Spring Sagging?

[summerinmaine]

The PO had installed a 4" lift (he said Total Control lift with Rusty's rear springs). As you see from my avatar, I carry a small camper that weighs about 1000# and the weight is pretty evenly distributed from side to side. I figure I'm running the equivalent of the Metric Tonne package, so the weight shouldn't be too much, right?

 

I had a set of ProComp M/Ts mounted yesterday, and saw that the driver's side rear was setting noticeably lower than the passenger side (perhaps as much as 2" droop; I had noticed it before, but the new tires caused it to appear more dramatic since they fill the wheel wells better).

 

My first thought was that the spring had sagged, though I haven't been able to crawl under and measure yet (I plan to run a string between the center of the eyes, and measure to the bottom of the leaf pack). I'm going to throw it on a lift and check things out, but assuming it is the spring, is it worthwhile (at least temporarily) to pull the spring and have it re-arched? Any experience with this procedure (cost, longevity, downsides)? Any other ideas for a quick fix while I decide on a suitable replacement (Add A Leaf, etc.)?

 

I've heard all the negatives about Rusty products, but like I said, it was the PO's doing. Any recommendations for better springs that maintain ~4" lift?

 

Is there anything else that might cause the noticeable droop? Unless something's busted, I can't think of what else might cause it.

[Motion Offroad]

It is common on the MJ's for the drivers side rear spring to sag (or settle) faster than the passengers side. This is because in a single person use vehicle the drivers side see's more use from the weight of the driver getting in/out. It is also the side that the fuel tank is on, so it has more weight on the drivers side as well due to that fact.

 

We tell our customers that the drivers side rear leaf will typically settle faster to ride height than the passenger side rear leaf does. This is due to the facts stated above. We state that if this does happen you can simply swap them side to side and the other leaf will settle to ride height sooner.

 

If your carrying a large load, we do offer a HD version of our 3" and 4.5" leafs with a increased load capacity. Feel free to PM us for more info.

[redneck23ms]

if the spring bushings are worn out it will cause it to sit lower on one side. i had that happen on mine. instead of fooling with the string and all just climb under there and measure from the top of the axle tube to the frame on each side and see how much difference there is between them.

[Eagle]

Lift springs are designed for lift, not capacity. To carry a moderately heavy load on a full-time basis, you need a spring with capacity, not arch. Rusty's springs are known to be soft from the git-go, so having his spring re-arched will be a very short-term solution, at best.

 

Let's get to basics: you need capacity, but do you NEED lift? Or would stock height springs that don't sag do the job for you, perhaps even better than lift? I don't think you have the equivalent of a Metric Tonne suspension, because the MT wasn't a lift -- it was more and thicker leaves, for a stock ride height with extra carrying capacity. My plan for creating a faux Metric Tonne is going to use two cut-off XJ main leaves as AALs. I'm going to go with the XJ leaves specifically because they have less built-in arch, and for that reason I hope they won't add much lift, but they'll settle in close to the stock ride height and add capacity.

 

It sounds to me like Motion's heavy-duty 3-1/2" springs would be a good choice for you.

[summerinmaine]

It sounds to me like Motion's heavy-duty 3-1/2" springs would be a good choice for you.

 

Thanks. I was thinking the same thing.

 

I do need some lift, but not necessarily 4" so I may consider a set of those, and then correct the ride height in the front if needed.

[Eagle]

If the camper is going to live there permanently, Motion's 4-1/2" heavy-duty springs might be the answer, and avoid tinkering with the front. If you're happy with the front, you want to match that height and still be able to carry the camper.

 

Is the front really 4"? The stock height measured from the axle centerline to the flare should be 17-1/2 inches in the front.

[CWLONGSHOT]

I agree with Eagle and would urge you NOT to spend ANY money on the Rustys leafs. Doing so is a complete waste, ever hear of a silk purse from a sows ear... or even the white parts of chicken $#!& are still $#!& and how about polishing a turd? I think you catch my drift. :D

 

I had the Rustys and bought the Motion 4.5's, I like them. Sounds like the 3.5's may be in your future. I can attest you will be MUCH better off with them than you are with the Rustys crap you now have. :shake:

 

Good luck,

CW

[summerinmaine]

I agree with Eagle and would urge you NOT to spend ANY money on the Rustys leafs. Doing so is a complete waste, ever hear of a silk purse from a sows ear... or even the white parts of chicken $#!+ are still $#!+ and how about polishing a turd? I think you catch my drift. :D

 

I had the Rustys and bought the Motion 4.5's, I like them. Sounds like the 3.5's may be in your future. I can attest you will be MUCH better off with them than you are with the Rustys crap you now have. :shake:

 

Good luck,

CW

 

If I could get them out here in 2-3 days, before the weekend, then I'd do it. But since that won't happen, I'll probably just do an AAL temporarily, then make the change as part of the total overhaul I have in mind for the next few months.

 

The concept of load vs. lift is one I should have thought of, but it was nice to be reminded that they are separate issues, and require different solutions.

[summerinmaine]

Is the front really 4"? The stock height measured from the axle centerline to the flare should be 17-1/2 inches in the front.

 

I haven't measured, since the front currently doesn't have the flares mounted, but I'll check that before I make any decisions. Thanks.

[Motion Offroad]

If I could get them out here in 2-3 days, before the weekend, then I'd do it.

We have them in stock and would ship same if ordered by 3PM.

 

Unfortunately it looks like ground shipping would put you at Monday to Del Mar, CA from us. If they would of left today you'd of had them by Friday.... :grrrr:

[summerinmaine]

If I could get them out here in 2-3 days, before the weekend, then I'd do it.

We have them in stock and would ship same if ordered by 3PM.

 

Unfortunately it looks like ground shipping would put you at Monday to Del Mar, CA from us. If they would of left today you'd of had them by Friday.... :grrrr:

 

 

Bugger! But the mechanic I'm working with on the big stuff will be closed on Friday anyway. The weeked is devoted to the seat replacement, tuning and the electronic control center wiring that I'm doing myself. Then I leave late Monday or early Tuesday.

 

Well, we'll make do, then I'll touch base in a couple weeks.

 

Would your HD springs handle the camper as a regular load?

[HOrnbrod]

Would your HD springs handle the camper as a regular load?

 

These will, and net you 2"-3" lift too depending on the weight of your camper:

CLICK Here

 

Specs:

 

o New manufactured Metric Tonne leaf spring

o Has the same specs as Jeep leaf spring part number 52003676

o Five leaf, three thinner top leafs and 2 heavier bottom leafs

o 1500 # load rating

o 130 - 275 spring rate, 9-5/8" arch

o 26" x 31" x 5-leaf, 2-1/2" wide

[Eagle]

Is the front really 4"? The stock height measured from the axle centerline to the flare should be 17-1/2 inches in the front.

 

I haven't measured, since the front currently doesn't have the flares mounted, but I'll check that before I make any decisions. Thanks.

 

You don't need the flares. You can measure by the "offocial" method:

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=11693

[summerinmaine]

Is the front really 4"? The stock height measured from the axle centerline to the flare should be 17-1/2 inches in the front.

 

I haven't measured, since the front currently doesn't have the flares mounted, but I'll check that before I make any decisions. Thanks.

 

You don't need the flares. You can measure by the "offocial" method:

http://comancheclub.com/forums/viewtopi ... =9&t=11693

 

Thanks! I'll give that a look.

[Jerry]

Another 2 cents from up north FWIW. As you can see from my avatar :yes: I also carry a a fair sized (1045lb) camper. The back end used to sag so badly (see pic) that over larger pot holes it hit the stops with a bang :eek: Solved by the addition of some 'Airlift' air springs.

http://www.airliftcompany.com/ride_control.html

Now it rides great and stays level (no pics). I'm not sure how long my rear axle (AMC 20) will last with all that weight but it seems OK so far, touch wood! I've filled it with fully synthetic oil and it gets warm but not hot on longer runs to the hills.

:cheers:

 

Edit: No lift kit installed on my Jeep BTW.

[Pete M]

The AMC-20 that's under MJs is one tough cookie. You should be fine. :D

Have you camper guys considered converting to the dual brake booster setup?

[summerinmaine]

The AMC-20 that's under MJs is one tough cookie. You should be fine. :D

Have you camper guys considered converting to the dual brake booster setup?

 

You mean the dual diaphragm from the XJ?

 

If so, I got one, and it's on my list. But so far, brake power and stopping distince has been fine.

[Jerry]

converting to the dual brake booster setup?

Are you speaking martian Pete? I didn't quite get that. Maybe if you said it more sloooowwwwly micro IQ over here might unerstand what your on about! :yes: Drake rooster upset didja say? What's one of them then? :huh???:

[Pete M]

You mean the dual diaphragm from the XJ?

 

It's been a long day. What he said.

[Jerry]

You mean the dual diaphragm from the XJ?

 

It's been a long day. What he said.

OK, I guess your a few hours ahead of us here. I'll assume for now it makes the brakes more powerful. :thumbsup:

[summerinmaine]

Update: Among the options available (considering money but more importantly limited time before I head South) decision was made to fit some helper springs. The sag is gone (at least temporarily) and I'll know more about the ride and load carrying capability after next week.

 

Thanks for all the great advice.

[summerinmaine]

Another 2 cents from up north FWIW. As you can see from my avatar :yes: I also carry a a fair sized (1045lb) camper. The back end used to sag so badly (see pic) that over larger pot holes it hit the stops with a bang :eek: Solved by the addition of some 'Airlift' air springs.

http://www.airliftcompany.com/ride_control.html

Now it rides great and stays level (no pics). I'm not sure how long my rear axle (AMC 20) will last with all that weight but it seems OK so far, touch wood! I've filled it with fully synthetic oil and it gets warm but not hot on longer runs to the hills.

:cheers:

 

Edit: No lift kit installed on my Jeep BTW.

 

I discussed airlifts with the mechanic I use, and his take is that they're better suited for a rig that spends most of its time on pavement or on groomed dirt roads. Is that your experience?

 

My rig needs some fairly serious off-road capability, hence the lift and my decision to go with helper springs..

[Eagle]

I haven't used them, but I don't think air bags are the right solution for you. Your camper lives on your truck, if I understood you correctly. Air bags are intended as temporary helper springs. Inflate for towing or a heavy load for the day, deflate for normal running with light or no load.

 

For constant heavy loading, heavy-duty springs are the answer. With the weight of a camper up top, you want as little lift as you need to clear your tires, matched to springs with sufficient capacity to carry the camper at that height.

 

Factory Metric Ton springs provide significantly more carrying capacity with no appreciable lift. Of course, starting out at stock height, if you plunk a constant 1,000-pound load in the bed, you'll have used up half the capacity and there will be some drop. So you probably need some lift, so you can end up at or slightly above stock height with the camper in place.

 

It would help to know how high your front end is. Then you could shoot to match that. In the absence of and hard data, I'm leaning toward that heavy-duty 3-1/2" set of springs Motion Offroad mentioned.