broythomas Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 I just put a new clutch in during my 4x4 conversion. It's a 1992 4.0. manual. Finally got everything in and went to bleed the clutch. Only a little fluid came out and the master cylinder didn't drain. I disconnected the hose right before it went into the bell housing. Pumped the clutch and fluid came out the hose. Everything worked before the change. This is obviously a long shot but is there any chance I can fix this without yanking everything back out again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLHTAZ Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 When we replaced my slave & clutch, we had to bleed it like brakes. Pump the pedal 3-4 times...hold...open bleeder...close bleeder...repeat. This process had to be repeated 5-6 times until it (the clutch) finally worked properly. I may be preaching to the choir here, but you didn't state exactly what you have done (as far as bleeding) yet so I figure it's best to start simple with suggestions ;) . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broythomas Posted July 9, 2008 Author Share Posted July 9, 2008 Sorry should have been clearer about what I did. I simply opened the bleeder nut and began pumping the clutch. There seemed to be little pressure in the system. The peddle went almost to the floor before I felt anything. Of course there is lots of air from disconnecting the hoses and putting in the new parts. I also started the engine hoping to build some pressure, but no changes. Nothing comes out now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLHTAZ Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 OK...yeah, you need two people to bleed it properly from my experience just like brakes. Have someone pump the pedal 3-4 times with the bleeder closed then open the bleeder for a couple seconds. Close the bleeder, then pump again etc, etc... If you open the bleeder and then pump the pedal, you are wasting your efforts. :cheers: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjeff87 Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 you probably have a big air pocket in the circuit now. Is this an internal slave, and if so, did you leave the little plastic bands attached to it when you put it in? If you did, you should have heard/felt them "pop" at some point in the process. I'd try the standard bleeding process as Brent mentioned (you'll probably displace about 2X the MC volume of fluid to fill the slave until all the air is out. You might also try gravity bleeding (open the bleeder and pop the cap on the MC, and keep an eye on the fluid level). Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broythomas Posted July 9, 2008 Author Share Posted July 9, 2008 It is the internal. I didn't undo the straps because it said they would break in both my manual and in the clutch instructions. I'll run out and do what bret said a bunch of times. Really don't want to take the tranny back out. Gotta do it by myself though. I work different hours than almost everyone I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broythomas Posted July 9, 2008 Author Share Posted July 9, 2008 Also, I think I felt the pop, but it was real faint. I'm assuming it would be faint since its thin plastic buried under metal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broythomas Posted July 9, 2008 Author Share Posted July 9, 2008 I tried bleeding his way and nothing. So I got out a hand vacuum pump and hooked it up. Still nothing. If the straps didn't break, would that keep it from pumping through. Like I said I got fluid early, but the master cylinder never went down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mountianrider Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 Is this the metal concentric slave cylinder, or the plastic one? Only the metal life time warranty one is going to last. Those plastic ones are complete junk. I pulled the tranny on one Comanche four times! I replaced it on the last time with the highest quality I could buy. I don't know, it seems that if you have a new concentric slave then the only other possible problem is the clutch itself is not up to the job, even given the possibility of a cheap plastic concentric part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 Try it again the way Brent (BLHTAZ) suggested. The hydraulic clutch can be a beast to bleed, and the way you tried to do it initially probably sucked a LOT of air into the system. Now you have to get that air out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broythomas Posted July 10, 2008 Author Share Posted July 10, 2008 The pedal goes almost to the floor before I feel anything. I'll go back down and work at it for as long as I can using brents method. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broythomas Posted July 10, 2008 Author Share Posted July 10, 2008 So I think I now qualify at least for idiot of the month if not year. You know the rubber thing in the master cylinder? It helps to remove this before topping off the fluid. It tends to interfere with the flow so there was no fluid actually in the system. Now the fluid is flowing, but I either still have air in the system or I've done something else stupid. I have pressure at the pedal, but it doesn't have full travel and won't let it shift gears with the engine on. Do I Just keep bleeding it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mountianrider Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 Yes! Yes! Yes! Keep pumping! It's shouln't take too long, but it's been over a year since I did it so I can't remember for sure. I'd say that it should start to build a working pressure after about eight or nine good bleeds. You are holding pressure on the clutch pedal? Right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broythomas Posted July 10, 2008 Author Share Posted July 10, 2008 I am I have a magic 2x4 that is the perfect length for this and almost any job you'd need a 2x4 for. Mine will probably take longer (already has) since I screwed up and removed every ounce of fluid. Get to start again in the morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mountianrider Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 Ok, the clutch system in these are critical: Meanings, that your clutch pedal is securely welded on to it's bracket; Right? Not flopping around or anything stupid like that? Like Mine Was! You must not have any un-necessary slop in the mechanical part of this system. It is Forbiden. Next, the BA/10 is known for it's very slow engagement of first gear in particular. Other gears should shift fast and smoothly though. If it isn't going into gear then don't force it. Either the concentric slave needs bleed or the clutch disc is excessively worn. At least lets hope that is it, else wise I'd have say the sync's are gone or going. Usually caused by forcing the shift without double clutching. I bet you just have air in the concentric slave still, but... Could the clutch disc be worn excessively? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mountianrider Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 Yep that works, the magic 2X4. I made up a spring loaded 1" dowel pushed in a pvc pipe. I got tired of having to custom cut the magic board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLHTAZ Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 Could the clutch disc be worn excessively? This is all happening because he just put a new clutch in... ;) Yes, just keep working it. Mine did exactly the same thing, but when it finally starts allowing you to shift gears, it may still feel a little weak like mine did. I took it out for a short ride and it started feeleing a little better and the tech at work that helped me out said that it just needed a little more time on the road so I drove it home (about 16 miles) and it has been great ever since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broythomas Posted July 10, 2008 Author Share Posted July 10, 2008 the whole clutch and concentric ring are brand new so no wear. Wasn't going to pull the tranny and not replace it. The tranny is a 1994 ax-15 that had to have the front plate swapped to match my 1992. I've never used it and bought it used so it could be bad, but I took the case off and gave it a visual inspection and everything looked good (Tore one down previously that had bad syncros) and shifted well before I put it in. My pedal was loose when I got it. It flopped around (Not side to side just up and down). It doesn't have the safety switch that prevents you from starting it with the clutch engaged, figured this caused the slop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broythomas Posted July 10, 2008 Author Share Posted July 10, 2008 O.K. this can't be right. I've run 16 ozs of fluid through it. Still only get a little pressure no matter how much I pump the pedal. Only feel pressure at the last 1 or 2 of travel. I've put several hours in now. When I build up the pressure, only a little fluid comes out when I release the bleed screw. No air. Fluid is clean and new when it comes out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejndssn Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 what's the status on the master cylinder and may want to check the pedal itself the weld may have gave way a bit justa thought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broythomas Posted July 11, 2008 Author Share Posted July 11, 2008 all was working just fine two weeks ago when I took everything apart to put in the 4x4 tranny and new clutch. Beginning to wonder if i damaged the master cylinder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLHTAZ Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 what's the status on the master cylinder and may want to check the pedal itself the weld may have gave way a bit justa thoughtThe issue is likely going to be found in these suggestions, or there is a problem with the slave itself that is going to force you to take it back out. It's possible that there was a situation with a weak master and all the other stuff being new is just too much for it. Personally...I would check the pedal assembly over real good and make sure all is well under the dash then probably install a new master. I would not want to take the tranny out again unless forced so I would be willling to spend the money on a master and take the chance...but, that's me ;) . If that doesn't help...then I guess there is only one thing left... :cry: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broythomas Posted July 11, 2008 Author Share Posted July 11, 2008 The clutch was a little weak figured needed a new clutch and it was significantly thinner. Maybe your right and the new parts finished off the master cylinder. I guess I'm off to the parts store. Really don't want to take it all apart again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broythomas Posted July 11, 2008 Author Share Posted July 11, 2008 Thanks for the help, turned out the master cylinder conked out. Apparently it was close and all the work finished it. As bad as it was to waste two days on this, at least I had an important part break while in my garage instead of on a trail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broythomas Posted July 15, 2008 Author Share Posted July 15, 2008 O.k. ran into a new problem. Took the comanche out for its first lengthy test drive. For awhile it drove and shifted just fine. Then I went parked with it idling for a few minutes in neutral and it would no longer shift into gear. Killed the engine and can shift just fine. Turn it on and can't shift again. I was able to drive home in 2nd (Lots of start and stop). The idle stays about where it normally is when I'm stopped and the clutch pedal is in. engagement seems to be at the very bottom of the pedal travel. Any ideas? Could I have missed a timy bit of air when bleeding the system? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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