Okay to Reuse the Pinion Crush Sleeve when Changing Gears?

[HOrnbrod]

Changed the gears in my D35 rear this weekend (first time for me) to compensate for the larger tires (31"). Went from 3.55 to a 4.11 ratio using Yukon gears ans rebuild kit. To make a long story short, we had to reuse the original pinion crush sleeve because the new crush sleeve supplied with the rebuild kit would not "crush" enough using the recommended torque spec on the pinion nut to correctly seat the forward pinion bearing, which caused a whine when coasting. There was noticible front up-and-down slop at the yoke after about 20 miles of road testing. When we disassembled, the new crush sleeve was noticably higher (about .035") than the old crush sleeve. Re-assembled using the old crush sleeve with no other changes (pattern, backlash, etc. was all good) and now all is quiet and well. Called a friend who has done many regears in D35s and 44s, and he said he most always reuses the old pinion crush sleeve because of the same problem. I did use all the new bearings and races suppplied with the kit. My question is, should I have any longterm worries by re-using the old crush sleeve? Went for about 100 mi. and all is well w. no leaks.

[DirtyComanche]

You should get a crush sleeve eliminator!

 

 

 

Otherwise I have no clue. Never done a setup on one of those.

[Eagle]

The crush sleeve is what controls the preload. You're supposed to use a new one even when replacing the pinion bearing or the pinion seal. You definitely need a new one when re-gearing.

 

What torque did you use when trying to set the new crush sleeve, and what torque did you use on the old one when you put it in?

[HOrnbrod]

You should get a crush sleeve eliminator!

Otherwise I have no clue. Never done a setup on one of those.

 

Dayem, thanks Dirty. :cheers: The crush sleeve is supossed to be a one-time shot to get perfect pinion preload w/o shims, but it did not work for me, and a crush sleeve eliminator was not included with the kit. I was ready to crush the whole D35 after three tries in 97 degree temps this weekend. But the old crush sleeve was fine and the preload is right. But I learned a lot, and love the new gears. Next job is to change out the speedo gear before I get another ticket :mad:

[HOrnbrod]

The crush sleeve is what controls the preload. You're supposed to use a new one even when replacing the pinion bearing or the pinion seal. You definitely need a new one when re-gearing.

 

What torque did you use when trying to set the new crush sleeve, and what torque did you use on the old one when you put it in?

 

Yeah, I know you're supposed to use a new one Eagle, thus the question. The Yukon instructions specified 400-500 ft lbs on the pinion nut. Used 500 on the new one and double checked w. two torque wrenches. Still did not compress it enough. On re-assembly, used 500 ft lbs with the old one, checked preload, was okay. Used no pinion shims as the original setup was, and shimming would have only made it worse, i.e. forcing the pinion more aft to the ring gear (had a slight high spot bind on first assembly). It really feels fine now, is smooth and quiet, and I smoked the tires all around town in forward and reverse, and climbed and coasted down a few mountains this afternoon, all is well. It's quieter than the old gear set (103K), and the pattern looked great on the last assembly. I think it's okay, definitely seems to be. Time will tell............ :roll:

[Eagle]

500 foot-pounds? :eek:

The spec on a crush sleeve isn't in foot-pounds. It's in inch-pounds, and it's based on tightening (crushing) until it takes 10 inch-pounds (I think, or is it 15?) to turn the pinion. That's when the preload is set.

 

My shop tech pals tell me it usually takes about 300-foot pounds to achieve that. One Jeep dealership (no longer in business) used to re-use the old crush sleeve when doing a pinion bearing. They would torque the pinion nut back to around 275 foot-pounds, and it seemed to work okay.

 

500 foot-pounds?

Be sure to let us know how long your pinion bearings last.

[HOrnbrod]

500 foot-pounds? :eek:

The spec on a crush sleeve isn't in foot-pounds. It's in inch-pounds, and it's based on tightening (crushing) until it takes 10 inch-pounds (I think, or is it 15?) to turn the pinion. That's when the preload is set.

 

My shop tech pals tell me it usually takes about 300-foot pounds to achieve that. One Jeep dealership (no longer in business) used to re-use the old crush sleeve when doing a pinion bearing. They would torque the pinion nut back to around 275 foot-pounds, and it seemed to work okay.

 

500 foot-pounds?

Be sure to let us know how long your pinion bearings last.

 

Been a long hot weekend, but as far as I remember, and I do not have the spec sheet here now, it's at the shop, the Yukon spec sheet said 400-500 ft lbs. But I do remember ( remembering is dangerous, for I am an old pharte as you are mate) the writer said to use the longest cheater bar, like 6', if you did not have a torque wrench to achieve adequate crush on the new sleeve. Well, we did do the max recommended torque spec on it the first time, still had up/down slop, pulled it, and the sleeve was not crushed nearly to the measurement of the old one. Pulled it apart again, inserted the old crush sleve, then tightened until it turned freely but w. zero slop up/down and turned tightly by hand but easily cw/ccw for many many rotations. Then checked the torque on the pinion nut, it stopped clicking incrementally about 490-500 ft lbs. Stuck the carrier, axels & driveshaft back in, everything still turned using the axle flange w. very acceptable backlash. Newbie, first time at this, and using common sense, it's right. If there were problems, I think they would have shown up during the very strenuous test run we made. BUT, I will check the specs tomorrow. But I'm looking for advice on this Eagle, and appreciate yours as always, and I appreciate your response.

[87manche]

yeah 500 ft lbs seems WAY high.

 

FWIW I don't think it will be a problem so long as the bearing drag is in spec.

It is after all just a piece of weak steel.

 

When I did the pinion seal in the D35 I just torqued it down to 250 ft lbs and called it a day.

 

of course, that axle exploded a year later, but I think that was more because of usage than setup.

[Eagle]

I can't say what Yukon gear includes for instructions. Personally, I only use Dana-Spicer gears. Here's what the MJ FSM says for pinion setup:

 

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Tighten the pinion nut only enough to remove bearing end play using Tool J-8614-01 and a socket.

 

Rotate the pinion when tightening the nut to seat the bearings evenly.

 

Continue tightening the pinion nut to collapse the spacer and preload the bearings.

 

When a very slight increase in pinion turning effort is noted, check the pinion rotating torque using an inch-pound torque wrench. The rotating torque must be 2 to 3 N-m (15 - 25 inch pounds).

 

CAUTION: Do not exceed the specified preload torque and do not loosen the pinion nut to reduce preload if desired torque is exceeded.

 

If the specified preload torque is exceeded, replace the collapsable spacer and seal. Install the yoke and the replacement pinion nut and adjust preload torque again.

------------------------------

 

Note that this adjustment is performed WITHOUT the ring gear being installed. All this is checking is the torque needed to rotate the pinion gear in its bearings. My tech friends tell me that it takes around 300 foot-pounds to crush the sleeve. Since you aren't supposed to crush it too much, when replacing a seal (since they don't want to open the diff and remove the ring gear for an otherwise external job) they use 275 foot-pounds on the pinion nut because they're pretty certain that WON'T crush the sleeve any more than it was originally.

 

I would be very uncomfortable about 500 foot-pounds. That sounds way excessive, unless the crush sleeve they supply doesn't match factory specifications.

[HOrnbrod]

There were two crush sleeves in the kit. One miked out slightly taller than the other, about .005. Nothing in the instructions as to which one to use. We used the tallest one the first time. Torqued the pinion down to max (still have to check on the 400-500 figure, might have been 250-300 :oops: ), checked the preload, reassembled, took it for a test drive, then the whine started when coasting after about five miles. Came back, pulled the driveshaft, and that's when we discovered the up and down movement of the yoke. We also could feel a binding high spot when turning the pinion w. the carrier/ring gear in place at the same spot everytime, especially in the ccw direction. Also, one thing we did not do the first time was replace the pinion fore and aft bearing races, just the bearings. So we tore it down, and the crush sleeve was barely crushed when comparing it to the new one. Reassembled with the old sleeve, replaced the pinion bearing races, and tightened the pinion nut just enough so it turned freely w. no slop. I do not think we even used the torque wrench when re-sassembling the final time using the old crush sleeve (two complete & many partial tear-downs, plus several Millers to keep cool :cheers:). Stuck in the carrier and axles; the previous high spot was gone, the pattern looked good, and it felt great and drove the same way.

 

I wanted Dana-Spicer gears too, but got the Yukon 4.11s and the master rebuild kit for less that $200 shipped. The Dana-Spicers were about double that w. shipping and did not include the carrier bearings and races.

[Eagle]

I mis-read the original post. I thought you were saying that you put 500 foot-pounds on the used crush sleeve when you reassembled.

[HOrnbrod]

No Eagle, you read it right; I probably wrote it wrong. Pulled the pinion in and out a few times to see if the dayem crush sleeve would actually crush with varying torques, some all the way to 500 ft lbs. It never did, as compared to the old one. On the final assembly we just tightened far enough until the preload was right.

 

Been reading over at NAXJA and some other sites regarding reusing the crush sleeve, about 75% say use new, the rest say it's cool to use the old one, and snug it up to about 250-275 ft lbs. So far so good. Put another 60 miles or so on today, all seems well. BTW, I'm just using regular dino Castrol 90 weight gear oil for breakin; plan to drain and replace with either Redline or Mobil 1 synthetic after about 200 miles or so. Never have used syn gear oil before, okay to do?

[87manche]

syn gear oil is just fine.

I'd use it if it didn't get changed so often.