Cj Issues

[ftpiercecracker1]

A friend of mine has a 74 CJ5  that he just can't seem to get going, so i went to help him out today.  I discovered it to be the saddest most hacked, spliced, and patched together jeep i have ever encountered. 

 

Here is how far we got today, all electrical aspects have been stripped out, most everything was held together with BREAD TIES or fencing wire. The only wires left now are the spark plug wires, coil power, coil ground, and positive and negative cables for the battery. Since its an old 258 it has a mechanical fuel pump and carb so we wanted to see if the old girl would even run. The starter has a hidden solenoid and there is only one stud, to which the battery positive cable it attached. By touching the negative battery cable to the starter body we could reliably turn the engine over, a small victory.

 

However, if i were to touch the negative battery cable to ANY metal section of the jeep it arcs as if i were touching battery negative to positive directly. I am talking huge HUGE arcs. Battery cables and clamps are new, YES they are wired to their proper terminals, the starter is also fully functioning. Battery positive is ran directly to the starter with zero splits.

 

The engine desperately wants to run, but as soon as it catches it immediately dies. It has a mechanical fuel pump, fresh fuel being pulled directly from my clean gas can and a new igintion coil. Starting fluid only seems to make it worse.

 

 

Ftpiercecracker.

[Biotex]

The best place for the negative battery cable is the starter bolt. The starter by far uses the most current, so it needs the best ground. Then, add another wire to the same bolt, and fix it to the fire wall. What I do on CJ's, is to add a stud to the tub fire wall so I can use it as a distribution block for grounds. From there, I ground the alternator, distributor, grill, and frame and dash, and starter solenoid.

Ideally, you want a ground for the head so the plugs are getting a good ground. You don't want them to have to go thru the head gasket for a ground.

 

Once all your grounds are in place, then you can add the positive to the solenoid. In your case, you were adding it directly to the starter. You will need to supply the coil also. This coil supply is a 12v supply during cranking, but switched to around 8V during run. It is to keep from burning up your points. That is what the ballast resistor is doing.

 

Without seeing what you are doing in person, I suspect the engine is dying because once the starter quits turning, you lose voltage to the points/coil.

 

Do you need a good wiring diagram?

[ftpiercecracker1]

Do you need a good wiring diagram?

 

 

That would be terrific.  

 

What i have figured out today is that, unlike my MJ which has its solenoid bolted to the top of the starter, a CJ's starter, or at least this one, has an internal solenoid. There is a remote starter solenoid that is responsible for sending and cutting power to the starter. I removed this from my friends CJ because none of it was wired and my friend had no idea what he was doing.

 

This is the style starter we are working with.  

 

 

 

If you could give me a diagram of how the Starter Solenoid and Coil are wired i would greatly appreciate it.

[Biotex]

Here is the charging circuit simplified:

 

More later...

[ftpiercecracker1]

Thats looks great Bio.  Am i to understand that the two wires going to the Ignition switch are actually coming from it? Because power should be going to the solenoid from the switch, not the other way around right?

[Biotex]

Thats looks great Bio.  Am i to understand that the two wires going to the Ignition switch are actually coming from it? Because power should be going to the solenoid from the switch, not the other way around right?

Correct.

 

The blue wire "hot in start" will provide full 12v to the coil. Then when the engine starts, and you let off the key, the coil is fed through the ballast resister so the points don't get full 12v.

 

This diagram is not the one I'm looking for, but will get the point to you.

Ignore the jumper wire at the starter, because this diagram is showing how to add a Ford style starter solenoid to a vehicle that doesn't have one. Such as a Scout 800B...

 

 

So, you see that as long as the key is in the start position, the coil is getting full 12V from the "I" terminal on the solenoid.

Then when in the run, the voltage comes through the resistor wire, or the ballast resistor.

 

Don't forget to ground the solenoid with a dedicated ground wire.

[Comanche County]

 

 

Don't forget to ground the solenoid with a dedicated ground wire.

 

I had a 74' CJ but it had a 232, anyway, once it had a starting issue, turned out to be this. 

[ftpiercecracker1]

Questions:

 

 

1. What can i use as a ballast resistor? Where can i buy one? Is it generic? Do you have a picture of one handy? Because i have no idea if his CJ even has one any more. Where would it be located?

 

 

2. How do you tell the difference between a 258 and a 232? 

[Biotex]

 

1. They are available at any parts store. Located on the fire wall close to top center.

          They look just like the ballast resistor our Comanche uses for the fuel pumps.

 

2.  http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/identify-your-engine-1383352/

[Biotex]

Are you aware that you can purchase a complete drop in HEI distributor for your engine? It will have two wires. One you provide it 12V when the key is on, and the other is for an optional tach. Could be a black ground wire, but usually they ground through the hold down clamp.

 

The HEI distributor has the coil built into the cap, so you do away with all the wiring. Last one I purchased was less than $100. Do your research though, if you go this route. There are some Chinese knock-offs that have hardened drive gears that will eat up your camshaft. What I do, is to remove your gear from your old distributor, and swap it on to the HEI one. Now you have a matched set and no worries.

 

With the HEI, you can widen your plug gap from the .028" range to the .035" range. This increased gap will boost your spark energy which is the same thing as a "hotter" spark.

 

HEI drop in distributors are a bit harder to get dialed in, because the advance on them are designed for a GM engine. There are however a ton of write-ups on how to tweak them for an AMC. Sometimes you get lucky and they are close enough right out of the box, but usually the vacuum advance needs adjusted. Just a matter of a timing light and an allen wrench.

[ftpiercecracker1]

Thanks alot for all the good info Bio. I have used HEI in the past and would probably do just that if this were my CJ. Actually if it really was mine, i would kill myself for buying such a hopeless, basket case.   :shake:     Either way its not mine and if the owner of said CJ were any more broke he would need to be in a cast.