JeepcoMJ Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 :agree: What do you think about Walker? Just would like to know from a resident rather than through the tube. i HATE talking politics but.... Walker did what he said he was going to do. He didnt make everyone happy by doing it how he did it, but thats impossible to do anyways. very true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comanchero87 Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 http://www.jsonline.com/watchdog/noquar ... 42312.html What about this? I know if I lived in WI and payed taxes my whole life and was on the verge of loosing the main asset I owned, I would be freaking irate. Do you believe in Trickle Down Economics? Tax cuts for corporations and benefit cuts for union members? I strongly agree with demand side economics. However Supply side is a joke if your workforce and bank accounts are located offshore. Whens the last CEO you met that would drop $1500 on a custom jeep bumper knowing he still had to come up with the other 15 to get the winch to go with it. Not gonna happen. The rich are like a pinata. Trick down economics is like saying if you keep filling that pinata its just going to explode like a ballon and shower candy all over everyone. This is not the case. In reality you have to beat a pinata with a stick to get any candy out. Or be good friends with the guy filling it. To bad only rich people with "freedom of speech"(money thanks to those one guys) get to be friends with the guy filling the pinata. As for Unions. They would be breaking the law if they were stuffing thier pockets. I will pull one from the othersides play book, "What they are doing is completely legal according to US law." What do you think came first the chicken or the egg? Unions or Greedy corporations? Big government or Big business? The poison or the antidote? Hmmm The problem exists today I fully agree with you about the politicians. I have a soft heart for Ron Paul. I love him for the same reason that radical conservatives hate him. I believe he is the only one who has any grasp on reality. Him and Kucinich that would be a dream team ticket. They have teamed up in the past on things like Cannabis. Sorry for the rant. I love debating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comanchero87 Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Walker proposed the right thing. Gotta remember...he's not the king. it takes him and the state senate to get these bills approved. he just proposed them. Kinda like Obama then? Universal health Care? All it does is reform a private system. Its *not even a government Run system. Its a government regulated industry. Just like every other for profit industry that have stepped on the heads of their drowning customers. Public union members had two choices...go broke and be out of jobs, or have cut-backs that will keep them employed, paid, and still recieving more benefits than most people. So the firemen, police men and public utilities would just shut down and go home? Raise the taxes back to what they were on corporations and spend the money regulating the safety net to weed out the defrauders. Give tax breaks to the middle class. They can go out and pee up on the rich people for a while. Everyone wins. The police, firemen and people scoopin your guys doo doo deserve every cent of what they make. Remember a union can self regulate its own. They are set up the same way our government is suppose to operate. Power in the peoples hands. The majority of people I should say. Not 2% of the population. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeepcoMJ Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 taxes should be equal across the board. you pay, I pay. certain things have different percentages, but it should still be equal across the board. And as far as your quoting my Walker isn't the king deal.... here's the problem. We all know that Obama can't just wave his hand and make it so. However, he can strongly suggest things and have a 50/50 shot (roughly) of it passing. That's how the system is set up to work. Consequently, when you get a majority of the house and senate being of the same party as the president, the president's "suggestions" will not be vetoed. The problem with that lies in the fact that Obama hasn't got anything good to suggest, so all the crappy ideas he has that get passed turn into crappy laws, crappy bills, and crappy programs. Outspending the cumulative combined total of every prior president in the history of the U.S. with less than 1/4 of the monetary gains/benefits of even the most successful president in our history sure as heck isn't winning me over, nor should it be winning any of you over. That's absurd. the whole "you have to spend money to make money" idea actually does work. that doesn't mean that you can go blow your life savings (and then some) on a really sweet sports car, home audio, house, etc. and expect it to somehow magically net return profit without you doing anything. Obama is working off the theory that he CAN blow all the money he can get his hands on and that that money will somehow make it's way back home like Milo and Otis. It just does not work that way. And...as if that all weren't enough, how about the whole "get an economical car" deal going on right now? WE HAVE OIL. all we have to do is drill for it in such a way as to keep the environmental effects to a minimal negative. 20mpg is reasonable. 20mpg gets you a sound sturdy vehicle that isn't going to be the death of you. Who the hell is he to tell me otherwise? Obama only got in office because the majority of minorities were too little educated to look past the racial aspect of the election at the man underneath the skin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comanchero87 Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 I guess the government should keep the money it gets its hands on. Not like we have a reserve banking system or anything. Money is fake. Dept is the only thing close to being real. This is because of contractual agreements. The currency is suppose to be issued by the government to the people to stimulate and regulate the trading of goods and provide regulation over the economy as a whole. Problem being the Federal Reserve is no more federal then federal express. Its a private institution that acts as the middle man between the government and the people. Only one member is government appointed. Now try to imagine this country if government (or formally known as the people) did not invest in things like oil production before it was a billion dollar industry, the Interstate highway system, the hoover dam (which is green by the way), your 20mpg truck (not the actual truck but the industry that innovated it.).................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................. Now lets look at clean energy. Ya we should not invest in that. :chillin: Flat tax would kill the middle class if we continue to bomb other countries. You know all those overseas interests....ya they are corporations. Oh but the embassies! Chicken or the egg. Its harder for a lower income person to live on their income than it is for a high income person to live on theirs. Not to mention the tax breaks these companies get. I think their should only be a corporate income tax and a national sales tax. Double tap those guys. Promote small business. Keep the well off from influencing political decisions, like elections. No offense I respect your point of view. However go ask a bunch of welfare black white or brown people if they have ever voted......I bet you will get almost the same answer from all of them. White people do it to. :no: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comanchero87 Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Oil is globally traded. No matter how much you drill you will not get the cost down. With more drilling comes more accidents. More accidents means more sick people......Do you think the oil companies will sell it here for cheap or send it overseas for a killing? Solar. Wind, bio, build it install it and reduce your own electricity bill. Saving you money while decreasing demand. But just like drilling reducing demand does not work either. Some mysterious interruption in the global supply always seems to have a impact on the price...boo hoo...so what? Natural gas is viable. Clean electricity production which will also reduce demand. Pretty soon you have a country that isent dependent on a globally traded commodity. Seems like they conversations always end with one saying. "penny wise and pound foolish." I just can't risk another George Bush whatever happens. Please don't do that to the rest of us again. I was to young to vote the first time and now I'm stuck with your guys dirty laundry. No offense but its the truth...and it hurts a little bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comanchero87 Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Got to go do my part and support Ron Paul tonight :cheers: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawn Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 i'd upvote that, lol. my mentor ( the one that got me into union ironworking) told me about all this stuff years ago, when i was too young and dumb to listen. now its coming full circle. people in the know simply do not shop at wal*mart, safeway, mcdonalds. when an eskimo used to go seal hunting he didnt say to his family " i'm gonna go try and catch a seal" he would say " i'm going out to get our share of the seal". when i go over to the tar-sands, that is the attitude that i take ---- i go get some and bring it home. ----- then enjoy it gratefully till i have to go again. - if i do some smart and sustainable things and learn from the right people, i won't have to go so often. ---- maybe one day never. shopping is big-time political, and the less of their "products" that we need the better off we will all be in the long run and the short run. ------to say nothing of the health benefits. it's gonna be an interesting spring, i think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeepcoMJ Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 products sold where the least amount of shipment costs are will ALWAYS be cheaper than having products shipped in. drilling for oil HERE will get the costs down long enough that when they come up with a VIABLE alternative fuel source, we will actually have the money to afford it. these electric cars have batteries that take thousands of years to biodegrade, and still use oil or silicon based products for lubrication. and actually cost more rare metals to produce. There is nothing about them that is "economical" in the long term, and their long term carbon footprint is actually higher than most cars and some trucks. gas and diesel motors are tried and true, and can be made economical. I fully support the search for alternative fuels. But until something reliable and affordable comes around, there is absolutely zero reason whatsoever to deny us the resources that will allow us to get by until that search is complete. As far as my comment on race. I worked for Coca-Cola during the elections. During that time, I was doing alot of service in chicago, milwaukee, and madison inner-cities. All of the African Americans were saying "Obama this" and "Obama that" and full-fledgedly supported him. When I (very very obviously caucasian) asked them why they supported him, the only intelligable response they could give me was "Because he's black". This wasn't just one or two in a store, but every single one of them. and they were all very very clearly uneducated with no hopes for any future but welfare stamps, and claiming child support...or being court ordered to pay it. I am also fluent in spanish. Of the hispanics I spoke to during this time, they generally shared that opinion. I'm forced to conclude by that that the majority of minorities supported Obama for the election, with little actual thought gone into anything but the color of the man's skin...and statistics show that the cumulative combined total of all minorities does indeed top the quantity of the "majority" race. There were people of all races who voted differently than my experiences show. I agree with that. some people are actually intelligent, of that there is no doubt. I'd point out, though, that the majority of people who voted for Obama were free-loaders and people that will never be anything that resembles a succesful human being, much less a decent one. Having a black president is great. absolutely the best thing to happen for African Americans in the history of this country...It's just a shame that it had to be one of the worst possible candidates for that role. If you think that Obama won the election through anything but his racial background, you're kidding yourself. He's not intelligent enough for anything but. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comanchero87 Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 products sold where the least amount of shipment costs are will ALWAYS be cheaper than having products shipped in. You sure about this? Not if they are offering more plus the shipping cost. If you had a choice to sell your neighbor your bumper for 100bucks but I offered you 150plus shipping. Now imagine if I had to have a bumper to keep my truck rolling. Now imagine my government bought my bumper for me and the payment is garunteed through my government and they were buying up all the bumpers they could. Remember you are a bumper business not a good neighbor. So you would probably offer your neighbor the bumber at 150 right? Who you going to sell it to? Who cares you just turned a 100dollar bumber into a 150dollar bumber. How come the One eyed republican was on CSPAN the other night explaining the global economy describing how the US grows 90% of the cotton in the world. We ship it to china. They turn it into pants and ship it back. Then you can go and buy it at walmart for 13dollars. He was saying how great it was. Plumbing parts? Hey did you know even the Chinese contracting companies are getting the infrastructure projects. You know why? Because our companies can't compete with foreign government owned and operated labor. Its the global economy and the people who are oblivious to it that are sucking this country dry. All the companies are trying to go global and make billions and once they get out there they train a foreign workforce and show off their products which are stolen and used to compete with the real, smaller US companies. But most of them were demolished by the bigger ones on their way up the global ladder. Its really pretty simple to see. Its happening everywhere everyday right in front of your face. Well if you can't understand that the price dident drop when demand dropped in this country I don't know what else to tell you. Not to mention that just the fact that they discovered the oil in ND should have reduced the price drastically. But nope. Wall street makes 48cents on every gallon you buy. Thats $4.80 for every 10gallons. Lets say you put 10gallons once a week. Thats $250/year. Lets say 100million people filling up this way. Thats a cool 2.5bill in pure unearned profit. I'm sure people are using alot more than 10gallons a week. Not to mention electricity consumption. Would you give that up? Do you think they are going to invest in clean energy technology? Its the oil companies that don't want a sustainable energy solution. Thats what this country is about. Give us a problem and we will innovate our way out of it. I never said anything about electric cars. Those just give money to the power companies which buy oil from the oil companies. I'm talking Bio diesel and Propane. Both have been around for a long time and only now that we have a problem are they being utilized. Not to mention auto shops, refineries and people in general will be getting the kick backs. Auto shops will be converting autos to propane/biodiesel, new bio diesel refineries will pop up because of the increased demand and people in the future will appreciate the open spaces and clean air that we still have. What happens when people stop needing gas? The oil companies loose their @$$. Thats why they spend billions of dollars influencing everything from elections to declarations of war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawn Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 products sold where the least amount of shipment costs are will ALWAYS be cheaper than having products shipped in. drilling for oil HERE will get the costs down long enough that when they come up with a VIABLE alternative fuel source, we will actually have the money to afford it. i can't speak to the rest of your reply too much, pat, but i can say for sure that this part is not even close to true. (unless i'm reading it very wrong). isnt that why there's no longer any manufacturing in north america? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeepcoMJ Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Perhaps my view on that is a little skewed, and my not how things are. I'd state, however, that my opinion is how things SHOULD be. I'm not an economist. I just see that corn is cheaper where it's made than other places, that I can get meat cheaper from the butcher than I can from the grocery store...and better quality, too. Regardless, when you have a resource, the refusal to utilize it and reclaim our foreign dependency is ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpnjim Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Regardless, when you have a resource, the refusal to utilize it and reclaim our foreign dependency is ridiculous. It's horrible what has been done to our industrial & manufacturing infrastructure in the last 20-30 years. Our ability to manufacture is the thing that tipped the scales in WWII. We didn't make the best planes, tanks & ships, but we made the MOST. That ability is gone. And what did we get in return? $299 big screen TV's, and $100 smart phones. Short term gain in return for long term failure. Forget Spanish, the younger guys here better learn to speak Mandarin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comanchero87 Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Perhaps my view on that is a little skewed, and my not how things are. I'd state, however, that my opinion is how things SHOULD be. "Any man worth his salt will stick up for what he believes right, but it takes a slightly better man to acknowledge instantly and without reservation the he is in error." Andrew Jackson I believe its more then a little skewed go try and buy something made in the USA and compare it to any Foreign product. Come back and share your results. We should have tariffs on these goods to make them equal trade rather than free. The corporations opened these loop holes when their companies moved offshore and were still considered US companies. Now they are not. They are owned by maybe a couple americans but their taxes, regulations and employees are 100% chinese. Also we make the best not the most. We have always done that except for ww2 when we came together as a nation and had house moms stacking the dimes and pounding the rivets. I believe the major problem is misinformation. If you guys seriously believe this stuff your saying id say well we are getting what we deserve. "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, he expects what never was and never will be." [quote I'm not an economist. I just see that corn is cheaper where it's made than other places, that I can get meat cheaper from the butcher than I can from the grocery store...and better quality, too.[/quote "He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors." Thomas Jefferson Until Monsanto moves into town. :help: [quote Regardless, when you have a resource, the refusal to utilize it and reclaim our foreign dependency is ridiculous.[/quote "Unless you become more watchful in your states and check the spirit of monopoly and thirst for exclusive privileges you will in the end find that...the control over your dearest interests has passed into the hands of these corporations." Andrew Jackson. Why do you think we are dependent today? Liberals? Carter had PV panels on the white house. Remember what happened to him? The oil companies and corporations took care of him, got a new guy in office. Regan took the PV down. This is a re write of the Carter years. The stupid Peanut farmer is a mirror image of the dumb community planner. Regular guy gets elected, Iran erupts and gas goes through the roof, regular guy gets booted republican takes his seat. Reduces taxes on the guys who helped them create the controversy to pay them back for lost revenue. Then stick it to the workers and give them a bigger kick back. Country starts slipping. What about in 50years? What about my grandchildren? Screw them right drill it now so you can maintain a gallon of gas for less then the rest of the civilized world. I would rather we sit on our oil. Let everyone else be penny wise and pound foolish. Guess who will hold the largest oil reserves in 50years? Thats the question you should ask yourself. Obviously if we have enough oil here we are not dependent on foreign oil. If we drill it while we don't need it when we really need it along with the rest of the world we will not have it. Whats going to help innovate alternatives then? Look at history. Why do you think 99% of world changing innovation comes from the US? Because we invest in the future and learn from our past. Well if we stick to the conservative way of thinking, which is change is bad and scary, we won't last the next century. Look up the definition if you don't believe me. If people wake up and start demanding alternatives we will get them. Its is easy as that. A flick of a pen and a couple key strokes could have a 5trillion dollars ready to install Solar and Bio in every US city tomorrow. Money is fake you are the one that makes it real when you start crying about government debt. Its fake. Google "Tally stick economics", or "Green backs." This will hopefully shed some light on the currency you think is god. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comanchero87 Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 I'm not trying to convince anyone to vote for Obama. I would just like you not to vote against the interest of yourself and the rest of the country if not the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dakal Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 lock this post!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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