case5412

lol, you knew I was you referring too you as "smart guy". Hey, I'm thankful for the information, I need as much as possible, even lectures. My build is far from over and I will keep yall updated. Thanks for all the info, Casey

Oh, and I also found out that Firestone does make a 30" Destination MT.

The light seems to be shining on me today. I checked the Wrangler they came off of and it was off a 06 Model, I assume that was the last year they made the 4.5, and I just measured my bolt pattern and the new wheels and they are the exact same size. :brows: :cheers:

I put my old Comanche wheels on my 08 MK and it's the same bolt pattern. (picture below)

I just read a post and one of the "smart guys" said for us newbies we should post a whole lot of specifics on what we want. Here's a lot of details and even two freaking pictures! :D 1. "Can 31" tire fit under my stock MJ with none to little rub?" My MJ is a 92, 4.0L, 2WD, bad azz machine! 2. I just bought a set of steel stock Wrangler wheels for 60 bucks. (picture below) 3. I want the "Destination MT" tire and I believe the smallest they offer is 31". (picture below) 2. 3. I'll go with the smallest "Destination MT" tire I can find; I'll actually go with the "Destination AT" if I have to. I am keeping the 3.07 gear ratio for now because I need a daily driver and I'll be taking it on 2k+ mile trips this winter. I have the 4.0L High Output so I will be able to deal with the slow acceleration speed from the gear ratio (for now). Even though I'll be driving it on the road a lot and a road type stock size tire is best I still want an "off-road" type tire because the Comanche looks so much better :rotf: with nice tires.

Nice, so any XJ would work for the front bumper? I'm looking for one similar to the "Grandpa Jeep" guys other Trail Jeep has.

I'm looking for preferred bolt in bumpers for my 92 Comanche. Know any web sites that offer them?

Yep, two days ago my truck was 2WD and now I realize that the drive shaft is a couple inches to long. Guess I'll be getting it cut down to size.

well there's a left over lift sitting around at this shop so I'm thinking about using it, because I'd like it to be a little higher.

Would I do alright with 31" tires a 3" lift and the 3.07 gear ratio?

Yep, I just checked, freaking axle is upside down. Where do find such stupid mechanics. I guess I won't be putting that axle on my truck. But since you said that my stock gear ratio is 3.07, which it is I just looked it up, where do I get the proper gear ratio axles? What does the gear ratio actually mean? Does it mean it moves slower the higher the number?

Yet you still have a weak axle housing, weak ring and pinion, fewer and more costly highsteer options, non-serviceable wheel bearings, no lockouts, small brakes, etc.... High pinion D30 gears are no weaker than low pinion D44. And people underestimate the D30. I run mine locked on 35s, and have abused it off road monthly. Have had it bouncing up to three feet high on multiple occasions doing hill climbs, still straight. And if you do want to truss it, it will still be less than the $475 for the Waggy truss will all the needed suspension attachment points added to it. Parts are cheap and plentiful also, unlike the Waggy. The weak link in the 30 is not the housing, not the gears and not the shafts. It's the unit bearings. The problem with the Waggy 44 is not that it is difficult to swap in, it is expensive to swap in. $475 for the truss, let's say $100 to have it welded on, $500 to $1000 to have it regeared, and you've spent between $1000 and $1500 after which you still need new wheels because of the different bolt pattern. I can get a high pinion 30 with the larger shafts for $200 cash and carry any day, ready to be installed. I can get spare shafts 7 days a week for $20. The same four yards that have a combined total of 5 Comanches, 30+ Cherokees and even more Grand Cherokees have exactly two full size Wagoneers, one if which is a passenger side drop. So one driver side drop Waggy 44 for let's say fifty D30s (some will be 2wd). Plenty of them are high pinion and plentry will have the larger shafts. I imagine the rest of the country is about the same. The truss is listed at 169$, why did you say 475$; is it because of the extra add ons? And I actually do not have and wheels right now I used the stock 5 lug for something else. And since the axle is at 3.07 do I need to have it re-geared? I'm going to use the 3.07 gears for the rear too. Unless that's a horrible idea. :doh:

Sure I care about the money, but I don't want it alone to make my choices for me. I want the look of the D44s and the uniqueness of the Waggy, and sure I'm afraid of the hickups involved but I hope to overcome them with as little pain as possible. The Waggy D44 is geared at 3.07 I believe, I posted pictures in the other thread. Do you know about the gear ratios? What can I do with 3.07, because I have the rear axle also.

Awwww.... People keep telling me to forget about the Waggy D44, is it really that difficult to install correctly, or is it the limitations. Is there anything good about my Waggy D44? Check out the pictures, its a drivers side drop.

Yet you still have a weak axle housing, weak ring and pinion, fewer and more costly highsteer options, non-serviceable wheel bearings, no lockouts, small brakes, etc.... Can you explain this a little more? Are you saying the Waggy is weak or the D30?

This will not end well... I would seriously reconsider your plans and just find an XJ or MJ D30 to put under for now until you do more research. Did you know that a Wagoneer D44 is a low pinion axle while you can get a HP D30 from an XJ or MJ that is just as strong and bolts in with no mods and can pretty easily be found with the 4.10 gears you'll need for 33" tires? Same size U-joints as well? You do gain a little bit with the size of the axle tubes and larger ball joints and brakes tho. Your not going to find a Waggy D44 with 4.10's in it, they usually had very high gears like 2.73's, so factor in roughly $1000 to change the gears, and another couple hundred to rebuild the rest of it, wheel bearings, hubs, brakes, ect, and the cost of the truss, and labor to weld it on, ect.... Then you still need to get a rear axle that matches, buy adjustable control arms so you can dial it all in. I personally feel for 33" tires, the most cost effective thing would be a D30/8.8 combo. Both axles can commonly be found with 4.10's anywhere from free to maybe $250-$300 a piece. Slap on some new brake pads, maybe callipers, some new u-joints, roughly a 4.5" lift to clear the 33"s with minor trimming. BTW, a 4.5" lift up front and SOA in the rear with stock springs comes out pretty damn nice as far as height goes. And really the only fabrication you'll have to do is welding on new spring perches and shock mounts on the rear axle. Done! You could probably do all this in your driveway with basic tools, floor jack, and some jack stands for probably a grand. And if your looking for F250 axles, HP44/D60, you better be running at least a 36" tire or you'll have a huge @$$ D60 diff dragging around everywhere you go. And these axles just make it more expensive as well! You'll probably have to have drive shafts built, swap in a brake booster and master cylinder that will work with 3/4ton brakes, and on and on.. Its way more involved than just bolting in some new axles! Take a look at the last few pages of my build, feel free to ask questions. Axles are front and rear D60's from a Ford F350. I'm not saying this is the correct way to do it, and i'm not saying you need D60's, but i've done hours and hours of research on axles, suspensions, gear ratio's, ect... I'm doing 100% of the work myself, i'm building all the brackets, welding, painting, ect. I dropped $600 on a front D60, $250 on building the steering, $75 to build the track bar, roughly $400-$500 for everything I needed to build the control arms, and it goes on and on. I'm thinking with doing all the work myself when its all said and done i'll be pushing $3000 into this, and thats just a guess. And that is with already having tires, rims, and axle gears from another project... viewtopic.php?f=7&t=4375&start=120 Thanks for all the advice and guidance. Let me throw a few things out in the open that I have ready and you tell me what you think then. Here's some pictures of my Waggy D44. You can see that I pulled both axles out of that Waggy. I believe the gear ratio is 3.07, I don't know much about gear ratio but will that work with my tires? I realize that the rear Waggy axle pumpkin is not in the middle. But luckily in a junk yard today I found a mid 90s Isuzu Rodeo 4WD V6 with a D44 rear in it. I discussed it with my shop and they're thinking of removing the "guts" from the Waggy rear and putting it in the Rodeo rear, making it the same gear ratio? After that I'll be purchasing the SUA 4.5" lift from HellCreek, it seems nice and I spoke with them today. I've also contacted TNT Customs and they said the Waggy axle I have should be good. Here's a picture of the Isuzu Rodeo rear I found today.

This is what I'm considering for the front axle. I have the axle but I do not know what mounts I'll need with this certian kit. http://02ea137.netsolstores.com/fronttruss-wagoneerd4480.aspx

I'm trying to buy a SUA lift for my 92 Comanche and I'm not sure what these options means. They offer two different lifts, one is around 500$ and the other is 800$, I want to get the best choice so I'll probably go with the more expensive one, but I'm not sure if it's neccessary. http://www.hellcreeksuspensions.com/

Do you have your build posted somewhere so I can look at your Front Wagoner D44 and Rear Isuzu D44 and mimic them for my project? I would need to show the shop too. Thanks, :cheers: Casey

I'll check out HellCreek/Rough Country. I need guidance more than anything because even my shop isn't well experienced with the axle swap. I'll look up HellCreek right now and I emailed TNT Customs last night trying to get more info on their truss system for my Wagoner axle; haven't got a reply yet. Also I have no idea about what the benifits are of having, what I believe you meant by "long arms" was having longer control arms.

Yes, I don't think SOA is necessary for the size tires I want. The MJ wasn't made for SOA so I've always put it out of my mind. Basically ill order what yall recommend, I'm no expert.

Lift it enough to put 33"s tires so it will sit nice and ride great. I want the heavy duty axles for pulling out buddys and off road capabilities, and because I just want them. My main goal is to make it a nice ride, that the "wife" would ride in, and is well off road woods trails with rocks. I don't want to make it to high, maybe 4" of lift, enough to fit the tires under with no rubbing. so I can order just the truss on TNT customs

Thanks, I keep going back and fourth in my mind on what I am going to do. I can easily find a mid 90s Isuzu Rodeo in a local junk yard. and I can easily order a TNT Customs Truss for my front D44. If I do this can you post a few other upgrades I'll need? My friend at the shop that's helping me do it pointed to the control arms and told me I'll need to get new ones, more heavy duty ones, and he also asked me if I knew if the Truss came with control arm brackets, idk how else they would attach but I am still curious. I'll spend tomorrow looking stuff up. Thanks again, Casey

I actually don't have a front axle. My truck was 2WD yesterday and now the new transmission is sitting on the table about to be put in. I don't mind staying with the stock axles, it's just I wanted it to be bigger. I may put a stock Comanche front end in it tomorrow and forget about the big stuff for now.

1. You're right; I should put it on hold, and I will. Unless a miracle happens tomorrow. Only problem is my truck was 2WD and I just put a 4WD transmission and transfer case in it, so I thought I might as well get the front axle now. I'll look for the "easy" F250 3/4 ton Axles and when I find them I'll celebrate. 2. It seems that the Wagoner axle will fit, (it may be a different year) because it's drivers side drop and seems to be near the same place as the stock pumpkin, but what do I know lol.