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Well, I agree about power, torque, and the beuaty of the symetry of a straight six... its perfectly balanced. Its got power, its got balls. I wouldn't mind having one around for fun stuff... been looking too! I had my 77 cherokee and I would give my left nut to have it back (mind you it would have to be showroom, built, and perfect!). It had a straight six that would eat most 8 cylinders for breakfast. It got amazing milage and I loved it..... three speed stick, a sick growling olive drab beast, people fled the lanes as I drove down the interstate, it was almost straight out of mad-max... whats not love? With the little manche in the year I have obviously their are obstacles and limitations. I am not beyond being able to appreciate the simplicity of its 2wd economy design and the functionality. (My wipers and windhield fluid sprayer all still works how cool is that! Even the fan works on all settings LOL.) As far as longevity at 221k and running smooth (finger crossed) I can't complain. In my area there are many vehicles, including cherokees with l6's, that have less miles and no longer run. Its all about how their cared for. I agree about the tech points of the champions for that year. They didn't design the engine to handle hotter plugs to begin with... why overkill it. I also love not having a cramped engine compartment. I want to remove the mech fan and replace with two electric aux fans from cherokees - it should give me a little hp boost. Add in a better flowing exhaust and better air induction.... I like clean smart, simple setups that I can take down myself without a sweat when the time comes to do a rebuild. I don't know that I am a purist by any means but I am all about improving functionality... genius can be defined by simplicity, especially in the realm of design... its art really, just another form of it. So 2wd to 4wd, with three inch lift, will cost me what on economy in the 4 banger? I'm guessing it would easily put me into high teens. (I'm currently getting mid to upper twenties... PO said 30 but IMHO thats optimistic) BTW the truck gets up and runs at 85 down the interstate... it just takes it a little longer than others. So obviously I'm thinking I'll just have to find another thats already got the 4.0 and build it. LOL can I offer you my

I would say that the coil needed to be replaced (30 sec run issue it cost 56.00.... BTW they had 2 types listed- one was for non-US I'm guessing South American/Canadian Jeep?). The wires to the plugs weren't hot enough anymore, (21.50 for a new set). The distributor cap had some corrosion on the points, a new one (12.00) and its all good. A little die-electric grease (15.00 for large tube) and we're good for now. I was surprised about the autolites too... I wanted to replace them but I didn't have the proper spark plug adapter for some reason. (So we recomend any special plugs? platinum bosch or just plain old copper champions?) :typing: While the original radio still functions I will be installing a CD-MP3 player, already have it, and speakers sometime in near future. I plan to install newer tailights (maybe LED?), and others to match, as the fixtures have broken down on the originals. Interior lights to be replaced with LEDs. Some new material on headliner. Interior updates. Dark blue exterior paint. Tinting. New (2 me) instrument cluster w/tach and gauges. Brake booster upgrade from a 95(1st thing to do...going is good -stopping is better). Rock guards on lights. Brush guard. Tinting... :rant: I need to fix the back passenger bumper quarterpanel area as it is dented up pretty good from PO's backing misadventure,.. I could cut it, but I don't need to at this point. I want to to remove the cap and put in a bedliner.. suspension/lift (not sure what size just yet)..4x4 conversion :bowdown: (its a change of religion for a 2wd truck... might just get another for trail stuff) ...yada yada yada. I'm just happy its running.... incidentally I like the inline four cylinder, why does everybody bag on it? :cheers:

It LIVES! :bowdown: So, today I actually have time to get under the hood. I degrease the engine and wiring so I can see what I am looking at. I went through connections and put dielectric grease everywhere that could be an issue... Fuel relay, power relay etc. After jumping the fuel pump I know it works fine... its a spark issue. Doesn't want to start... at all. I try starting fluid into the tbi... nothing. I call the PO and find out the he replaced the dwell? inside the distributor cap, the spark plugs (he put new autolites in it)...nothing else. I go to checker auto and by another coil. I install it and get to looking at the spark plug wires... they are the OEM wires... Hmmm. I go buy a nice set of Bosch wires, and a new distributor cap. It cranks up and purrs happily. I guess its always back to basics :thumbsup: I ran seafaom into the gas tank and took the last third of the bottle and put it into the crank... now its nice and quiet... I take in on a test drive... good. I drive it down the highway, at 85mph and return the 120.00 worth of parts I don't need. :banana: All I have to do now is get the body to stop creaking.... Lift kit and 4wd in the spring I am thinking. The muffler weld mount at base of engine is broken so I am going to use a hose clamp to tie it down for the short term to keep it from rattling. Aside from other minor mech issues, cosmetic issues, needing new paint, and cleaning the dirt from twenty years of service I couldn't be more pleased. Thanks for all of your advice and support.... There's only one place to come to for advice.... You guys rock! :clapping:

Chaptler 11 isn't the end. Its a restructuring. Chrysler is in desperate need of this as they do not have the clear focus needed to hold the reigns of Jeep to begin with. Jeep is an icon and the parts as we have seen are fairly interchangeable. The Jeep crowd has always been independant and resourceful. Its not a game ender for us, no way. There really is nothing out there like Jeep... Personally I would be happy if Ford would take it back. But I know many would never agree. :cheers:

:agree: That Renix FSM link is the sh.... uh, er, yeah its kick butt lol! :smart: I've been doin my book learnin and studying the systems and the troubleshooting as nauseam, (though in a strange way it has been entertaining. :nuts: ) Anyway I have been learning the methodology from all of your posts, and I really apreciate it. This is a great forum. Each of you has taken my problem on to help me. You can't find that in many places anymore! So the gas issue.... PO says it was a couple of weeks old.... :brows: So the first thing I did was put some heet in the tank. I will check and replace the inline filter first.... if its got a rust issue I should see debris and be able to check flow while I am in this location. On a happy note I purchased a small cordless soldering iron, love new toys, and will be looking over all wiring as I go from the fuel system jumper to the tpc harness, to the cps harness, and down the line. Its got some extra wires (2) running around... I really hate wires that just lay disconnected in the engine compartment with duct tape (yuck) for protection.... Looks like they just pulled this, wired that, replaced this sort of a thing which has led to a small issue of the original issue never being solved,.. naturally this issue would have cost less to solve in the long run... so instead it causes a lack of electrical integrity and component/circuit failure...thats why they never did it. :dunce: Yeah KISS is the way. BTW is automotive wiring stranded, and is it made to tolerate greater heat, and thus available at Lowes for less moullah? I went to Autozone (its closest) and paid through the nose.. :( . :wavey:

I wasn't planning to start with hot wiring just try it -after- examining the fuel relay switch... I bought one and a multimeter and I will see where they take me. Temporary removal of the fuel relay switch and jumpering the wires so that my fuel pump gets power, though protected with an an inline fuse in the wire I'm using to jumper, will tell how good my grounds are. If that worked and the truck ran then I would be off to check other items like wiring :nuts: TPS and such. Thanks for answering the engagement of the secondary systems question I had . I also agree that I don't want to go hacking into perfectly good wiring (possibly compounding my issue without solving anything.) I have researched through the posts on this forum and somone else had a nearly identicle issue with the same things going on that I have and it was his Ignition Control Module. on the low tech side I have wondered if a peice of debris is in the gas tank and its obstructing the fuel flow. Please tell me if there is an easy way to clean the oil and dust off the wiring and terminals under the hood? Thanks again

well I agree that the battery is an issue, I will use my current DD to supply the voltage. The fuel pump regulator is an item i examined in the renix fsm. I was leaning towards eagle's suggestion initially as it would tell me right off this is the deal or not by letting isolate where I have the issue. I purchased a fuel relay and the wiring, fuses, and connectors I need to make this happen. Now I just need time and I won't have that for a few days; fri,sat,sun,mon I work 16.5 hours at two seperate jobs- essentially I get no sleep until Monday night. As far as the Ballast resistor goes, there is just not one I can find and I spent about four hours under the hood and undeer the car looking for it. The thirty second thing seems to indicate that the intial start mode is no longer running the same way through the ECM and is running through a secondary systerm that is interfering with the fuel reaching the engine. So it starts and I can rev it high as a kite. Then after approx. thrity seconds the rpms fall as it sputters, and they continue to fall until it dies. It should be mentioned that when I was driving it down that road and it died that I left it in gear and the engine attempted to continue to run but was not getting air/spark/fuel.... so it lugged it, getting just a spurt of fuel on occasion, just enough for it to lug a little farther say a hundred yards into the parking lot. Based on the control systems it seems fuel is most likely as the truck ran fine initially in startup mode, when it changes over to run-mode is when things seem to be not woking..... I know its got air flow, so that goes to the bottom of the list. It's got spark. So I will work backwards from fuel relay to, hotwiring, to tps, to fuel regulator, to tedious wire inspections all over the truck until the truck runs fine again. I like Randy's suggestion to as it would obviously affect the ability of the system to deliver fuel. Thanks! I let you know what I find out Jason :thumbsup:

Thanks Wildman Yeah I have a bit of work to do but I have a friends wrecked 95 cherokee donor to give me 4x4 and a host of other parts. Aside from that I have alot of cleaning to do onthe truck as the PO was not very tidy :ack: The battery is strong enough to start it. Like I said it'll run up and idle fine but only for that short amount of time.. Thats why i'm so stuck on some secondary system jacking up, but it could as easily be any compnent of the renix, loose wires, shorts, including the battery. The PO was fastidious about his maintenance, and the alternator is new (though it could still be bad). The underside is pretty clean and I need to take a closer look at all of the wiring. In case your wondering the PDC had a plastic cover on it, I pulled it to show the relays. I was thinking that a temporary bypass might be in order, at least until I can get it more isolated, it could let me know that its the TPS, fuel relay, or whatever. Then I could fix it for real, its always fun chasing down this sort of stuff and the results are worth it. Thanks again, appreciate your input!

no lol that is the flash on the camera :) it probably looks yellow from the oil all over the engine

Looking at the wiring diagram information I think it could be isolated to two areas. Fuse link- if I have that-may have been replaced. -or- Fuel relay How is the Balast resistor bypassed during startup mode? what caused one of these to go is another issue for investigation First I will start and verify that I have exhaust from tailpipe. If not, then it has to be the cat, or a combination of all of the above :ack: . I'll let you know what I find

okay here is a try at photobucket... Here are some pics of my truck, hope it helps some...BTW my wife and I want to move back east to the smokies soon... way too expensive here! Not sure if these will upload... hope it helps..... My jeep must be an 88 model year right? Guess I'll check the vin.... Could I run a hot wire from the battery, with a fuse, to test if the fuel pump is working properly, (also bypassing the ecu right?). If the truck starts and runs fine then it would be a ECU error...yes or no? Does the ground control the pump on this engine normally? Just trying to think of a way to isolate systems.... Just tell me if its a scatterbrained idea. Thanks Jason

Oh, when I start it I can rev it just fine up to and past 3000. It idles fine. It runs strong for about thrirty seconds.... you know just enought so I get excited. The it starts to sputter, and it knocks, then dies.... Seems like the ballast problem but I agree could easily be the fuel relay too. I will try and go to NAPA tomorrow and get a new one... and a fuel pressure gauge too. BTW the passenger side fender was struck at an unknown date and I so not know if this could be related, the tailight housing is loose.... But the ground for the fuel pump should be on the drivers side....since I can rev it fine when it starts (the battery is low BTW) it seems unlikely that a fuel pressure issue is present right? The gas tank has a newer looking black plastic cover on it and the fuel filter is black, not sure if its OEM, and does not have any indicators for in/out. Its seeme like that secondary system tries to take over and kills it... Is there a secondary system that will do this like EGR or something? Thanks guys.... Anybody else on the western slope?

Thanks for the pictures it helps. I have to get a fuel pump gauge. I thought Eagle and others said that the cpu going bad is rare? This is a 89 Manche 2.5 2wd, IDK if that means the ballast resistor could be located somewhere else as the drivers side engine bay wheel well is filled with my radiator resevoir, windshield fluid resevoir, and power brake assembly. I looked around the power steering knuckle and its not there. I have to acquire a fuel pressure gauge I guess, its amazing how a 350.00 truck grows in cost, but at least I will have a needed tool. I will look on the firewall too in case it was placed there as it was on 87-early 88's right? The folks on cherokee talk are saying I should check my CAT to see if its clogged. Wiring/relay makes sense too. I have pics but I can't drag and drop here for some reason and it won't let me upload because of file size (more thannhappy to put them on if you can tell me how) My engine bay has all of the electrical your pics show mounted on the pass side. All of my driverside wiring is related to headlight/TS indicator/horn.... I have no visible relays in this location.... Perhaps my vehicle is a unicorn or something with the wiring all on the other side of the vehicle. Thanks guys Jason- in New Castle, Colorado I realy appreciate the technical advice and your mechanical knowledge and the speed of your replies.

Hello I've lurked on the forum until the purchase of my manche went through. I'm Jason from Colorado, my wife and I live near Glenwood Springs. :help: SO I looked for the Ballast resistor. No dice. I looked all over the driver side fender and near the radiator housing, underneath radiator overflow, underneath windshield wiper fluid resevoir, on the drivers side, nada. Cursory check of firewall reveals nothing. Sale date of the vehicle was 1/89. would the balast resistor be anywhere else? I've followed wires near the headlight and looked through the horn area and around the airintake but I can't find anything resembling a 3 inch long porcelain block with the two wires attached to either end. The truck does run but it does the proverbial 30 second sputter die thing. I did get it to go several hundred yards down the road before it did this, left it in second with the key in on position and the trucked lugged and sputtered enough that I was able to get it out of the owners driveway and into the nearby ace hardware parking lot. Does take a while to crank, say 6-8 turn when it decides if it will or won't start. PO has replaced lots of things trying to find problem until he decided to sell it to me, rust free, for 350.00. Things appearing to be new include alternator, 02 sensor, etc. The truck has 231xxx... Any help would be extremely appreciated... I'm going to look through my Hayne's manual again so I can verify sensor positions etc. I love the jeep and want to fix it. Thanks in advance Jason