2.1L Diesel Question

[JeepcoMJ]

The valves are vertical and flat to the piston. He didnt get it started, so the cranking rpm shouldnt have damaged them

[JeepcoMJ]

I would recommend you disassemble. Ours had a bad bridge in addition to junk rockers, same situation

[CobraMarty]

I would recommend you disassemble. Ours had a bad bridge in addition to junk rockers, same situation

Yeah, didn't start, only cranked over.  But then he also said that he didn't hear any loud or bad noise either.

 

Disassemble? like the whole engine-head off?

Is that the rocker bridge?  **it I didn't look that close at them, and I didn't order them either.

[CobraMarty]

At least RockAuto has the 'bridges' like $2.20ea, I guess I need 6.

[CobraMarty]

More history on this vehicle-

Here is what the seller wrote on another forum-

 

HELLO JEEP LOVERS! YOU FOUND THE UNICORN OF JEEPS!* First I encourage everyone to web search "factory diesel Cherokee". You will see how rare and impossible these are to find. There are stories, which I cannot confirm, that there are "only 30 in the United States", and "only a few hundred were ever sold here." Let me start off by giving you some background information: * I purchased this Cherokee on June 24th 2014 from a man from South Carolina. He had towed it here to Ohio behind his camper to daily drive while he was here working. Late June I bumped into this guy while out driving one of my other Jeeps. In casual conversation he had informed me he had a factory diesel Cherokee. Half curious and half in disbelief, I asked to see it in person. Long-story short, after 3 trips back to his place and lots of begging, I talked him into selling it to me.* * I drove it home that day and spent the next two days washing it up and cleaning it out. On June 26th I drove it to have an out-of-state VIN inspection done and had the title*transferred*to myself here in Ohio. It had been a South Carolina vehicle for at least the last 15 years and possibly it's whole life (you can tell by how rust-free the underbody is). You are welcome to purchase a Carfax to verify.* DUE TO EBAY'S SILLY NEW POLICY ON*EMBEDDING VIDEOS, I CANNOT INCLUDE A VIDEO OF THE CHEROKEE. IF YOU GO TO THE YOUTUBE WEBSITE AND SEARCH; "1985 AMC CHEROKEE CHIEF DIESEL" YOU CAN SEE A VIDEO OF THIS VEHICLE RUNNING THE DAY I PURCHASED IT. * Upon returning home (2-3 miles) I noticed the water pump had steam coming out of it. No big deal, I found a pump on RockAuto and put it on. Some of the bolts had broken off trying to extract them. I had to drill and tap new threads. I didn't use thread inserts, I was trying to be minimally invasive. I added nuts to the back side of the water outlet just to be sure I didn't strip them out torquing them down. I believe the water pump is installed correctly and should work as intended. However, due to the fact that I had to remove the belts (external timing) the motor needs re-timed. This I have no idea how to do. I don't want to be the guy to mess up one of the only factory diesel Cherokees in the United States.* * I want someone who will cherish this and do it justice. Show it off and let people see it in person. This is more rare than a Delorean, a Hemi Cuda, or whatever "rare" car you can think of. It is a complicated little motor that deserves more respect, time, and budget than I can afford it. Please, please, please if you do not know what you are doing*mechanically do not bid on this vehicle. It deserves expert service.** * This "Jeep", being a pre-1987, is actually titled as an AMC Cherokee, as Jeep had not officially taken the model (XJ) over on it's own. This vehicle is*equipped with the 2.1 turbocharged and intercooled Renault diesel motor. It is backed by a 5-speed manual transmission. These were rated at 35 MPGS!!!! * This Cherokee has an aftermarket 30 (aprox) gallon fuel tank, a 3" (aprox) suspension lift with sway bar quick disconnects, and almost new 31x10.50x15 tires.* * These were made to be sold in Europe, the reason why you have likely never seen or even heard of the diesel model.** * PLEASE KEEP IN MIND THIS CHEROKEE WILL NEED HAULED HOME, AT THE VERY LEAST IT WILL NEED THE TIMING ADJUSTED TO BE*DRIVE-ABLE.

On Jul-06-14 at 14:20:28 PDT, seller added the following information: Just had a good question, wanted to throw this out there: Q: Dear englewoodz28, Greetings, you said = However, due to the fact that I had to remove the belts (external timing) the motor needs re-timed. Did you try to turn it over or something during the water pump change? Jim - maxedseo A: * Dear maxedseo, Hello, According to Renault service manual, anytime the timing belt is removed, the belt has to be changed and the motor needs timing adjusted. I did not crank it while removed, but I believe from it being parked in-gear while working on it, I may have bumped it off timing. I tried to start it after the change and the accessory belt moves but the timing belt doesn't. I turned the motor over freely by hand 3 times (as instructed in the service manual to begin re-timing). I however do not have to tool required to find top-dead-center on the crank, as needed to continue timing the motor. Hope this helps, any further questions please ask. -Ron - englewoodz28

On Jul-06-14 at 15:30:43 PDT, seller added the following information: Another great question for all to see: Q: Dear englewoodz28, Hi, if I understand your previous answer... the engine was cranked over but the timing belt does not move. With this interference engine that would mean engine damage, at the least the rockers. Do you have pictures of the engine with the valve cover off? Thank you J - joeblack5 A: Dear joeblack5, Joe, I understand your concern, that is a great question, thank you. I do not have a picture with the valve cover off. To be honest I would rather not remove it after having broken the bolts on the water pump. I feel I need to leave this to someone with a greater understanding of the Renault. As far as damage I am really not sure. There wasn't any terrible noises, but that is not necessarily an indicator. A helper was standing over the engine bay when I tried to start it and he said it appeared the belt was slipping around the crank pulley. I just briefly hit the key twice and stopped to do research before I went any further. I honestly do not think I damaged anything. As far as what had been done to the vehicle previously, I do not know. Like I stated in the description, I drove it a few miles and it ran great. It hasn't been started since the water pump was replaced. -Ron - englewoodz28

On Jul-08-14 at 09:16:17 PDT, seller added the following information: Here's another good question I would like everyone to see: Q: Dear englewoodz28, Greetings. Cool Cherokee. Since it doesn't run are you okay with the buyer having it picked up by an auto shipper? Also, since it doesn't have a front drive shaft did it drive fine when you bought it just not in four wheel drive? Thanks, Mike - mik1922 A: Dear mik1922, Mike, Thank you. It is unique for sure. I kind of have been anticipating an auto shipper would likely be the method of pickup for the vehicle. I am available and will gladly help the transporter with the pickup. I drove the Cherokee in 2WD only. The previous owner told me he removed the front shaft before leaving South Carolina. He stated he was trying to maximize fuel mileage. -Ron - englewoodz28

On Jul-09-14 at 10:39:48 PDT, seller added the following information: I am an honest seller, I make all messages and answers public for all: Q: Dear englewoodz28, If the belt slipped and it was cranked. Then 100% the piston came in contact with the valve's. I have had one of these for about 5 years and gave it to my uncle. They are great engines that will last a long time as long as you torque head bolts every 25k and don't break or slip the timing belt. 2.1 8js turbo diesel. Sorry.. you would definitely have to pull the valve cover to inspect valve train. To get a new motor as these are not repairable. You can not mill or make repairs to head as its all aluminum. some versions of the Shasta campers came with 2.1 turbo diesel. I have seen them here and there for sale on craiglist. Other wise you have a nice body on that one you have for sale. * A: Dear stevebmw, Steve, I suppose that is possible. I have been told numerous things from numerous people. It has also been said the belt just slipped because it was stretched from taking it off. There may be damage, there may not be. It was only turned over for an instant and rotated freely by wrench. If there was contact it would be minimal. It wasn't running and slamming together. Regardless, I'm not trying to sugarcoat anything, I have made every private message public so everyone can see them, regardless if I agree or not. The vehicle needs work, hopefully someone is more knowledgeable than I and can save it. The reserve is set at a fair price all things considered, I'm not changing it. The last record I found of one of these selling was nearly $10,000, and that was over 6 years ago. It's a rare rare rare Jeep and there's someone out there who will give it the respect it deserves. -Ron - englewoodz28

On Jul-09-14 at 14:53:22 PDT, seller added the following information: I HAD SOMEONE LOCAL CONTACT ME ABOUT THIS VEHICLE, THEY SEEN THIS AUCTION. THEY SEEMED*SURPRISED*WHEN I MENTIONED IT DOES NOT RUN. I HOPE THIS IS CLEAR TO EVERYONE. THIS JEEP DOES NOT START!!!!!!!! THE MOTOR IS OUT OF TIME. IT WILL NEED WORKED ON BY SOMEONE WHO KNOWS WHAT THEY ARE DOING.* IT RAN A WEEK AGO BUT NOW DOES NOT START!!!!! THERE COULD BE OTHER ISSUES!!!! I'VE OWNED THIS A JUST A COUPLE WEEKS AND HAVE ONLY DRIVEN IT A COUPLE MILES!* I WANT THIS TO BE CLEAR.* IF YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND RENAULT MOTORS, DO NOT BID! YOU WIN IT, YOU OWN IT. SORRY IF I SOUND LIKE A BUTTHEAD, I'm ACTUALLY REALLY NICE LOL

 

[JeepcoMJ]

No, I meant pull the cam out and all bridges, keeping them in order, clean out any debris from the head, and inspect all. Parts.

 

Just don't want you to get the rockers, and find when out when you pull the cam to put them on that the bridges are also broken.

 

You're already waiting on parts. May as well make sure you have everything accounted for so that you can get it done in one go.

[CobraMarty]

Thanks, I just ordered new bridges.

[CobraMarty]

Upon disassembly, the rocker shaft bridges were all OK. Interesting was 2 nuts were slightly stripped and the studs were fine. The pressure might have tried to lift the shaft and stripped the nuts. No breakage.

 

My son reassembles everything, checked the belt timing like 10 times, set the valve lash and buttoned it up.

 

It started and idled Horray. Now to get all the assessory belts back on, fill and bleed the coolant and take it for a spin.

 

Next issue, the cold start ?ampule thingy is all rusted and frozen and the lever arm is rusted and doesn't move. Spraying with PB blaster for now. Need to look into this.

Also the rear bumper and then state inspection and register it.

[CobraMarty]

It runs and drives !!

 

Temp stays at 180degrees, oil pressure seems bit low, might be sensor, 3/4 tank fuel (has 32 gallon tank), 10-11 pounds boost, turns really easily, brakes suck.

Video on CF.

 

New needs- Battery, brakes F+R,

Ordered- rear bumper and brackets, found used front driveshaft

 

Checked all head bolts and all were the same and tight.

[JeepcoMJ]

Good

[CobraMarty]

Now where do I get a 'Cold Start Thermostatic Capsule'?  I think that mine is frozen, in addition the arm it acts on is also frozen.  I'll keep spraying it with PB blaster and Brake Kleen and try and free it up.

 

Where is the oil pressure sensor located?  Are they available anywhere?

[Automan2164]

Someone on here has some friends in the dealer network, and they scared one up for me... Check with the dealer or a winnebago dealer.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I replaced mine thinking it was frozen like yours, but I don't know if that was true or not. I know it's working because when I start the truck it high idles until it reaches operating temp and then settles down. Before I replaced mine, I never let the truck get up to operating temp to hear it change.

 

Oil pressure sensor is by the remote mount oil filter. They are still available, but quite pricey. Under the air cleaner, lower middle right of the pic.

 

 

Rob

[CobraMarty]

Drove it a bit yesterday.  Got it registered and new group 34 battery-1050CCA.  Drove well on the freeway, was doing 63 on indicated 55 due to the 31" tires.  Getting it inspected today.

Has a few leaks- coolant from thermostat housing, radiator cap, gas tank fuel line connection, rear oil pan.  Oil pressure gauge is twitchy, maybe loose connection.  Should fix all these today.

Ordered new brakes and stock replacement shocks.

 

Engine is running great, THANKS EVERYONE!! 

[CobraMarty]

Well all was well. I think the gas gauge reads wrong. It says 1/2 tank. So driving all around in it doing errands and stopped at a light and it died and wwouldn't restart. Acted just like it ran out of gas. Added 3 gallons and it sputtered and wouldn't restart. So is there a priming sequence required if you run out of fuel? Calling for a tow now. Almost back to square one. Any advice. Thanks.

[CobraMarty]

Drove it today and it died at a stop light and wouldn't restart. It is acting like it is out of fuel. Gauge says half. Tapped on tank and it sounds empty. Added 3 gallons and it still wouldn't restart. How do you prime the inj pump after running out of fuel?

[Automan2164]

It's kinda like priming a brake system. Start closest to the filter, working your way to the individual injectors. Bleed it off at the filter housing, the at the inlet to the injection pump, then the outlet lines, the the injector nuts. Check YouTube for some live demos.

 

Rob

[CobraMarty]

OK, put my hand suction pump on it and primed the fuel line to the filter, out of the filter, poured fuel into the line going to the IP, vacuum to the return line out of the pump, all primed and fuel free of air.

No start.

Didn't crack the nuts coming out of the IP to each injector or the injector nuts themselves.

 

They are hard to get to, seem to be 18mm and I only have 17mm and 19mm line wrenches.

 

So I guess I gotta do the injector lines next.  Arg!!

[CobraMarty]

I read so much and many said that the Bosch VE pump is 'self priming'.  Maybe these are just the guys who don't want to crack the injector lines.

 

Rookie mistake running a diesel out of fuel, bone dry.  Had a false sense of security with the gauge reading half full.  Should have just filled it anyway, on a new to me vehicle and be sure.  Stupid me.

 

Of course it is raining now.

[Automan2164]

Did you crank it for a long time after it died? If you didnt, and more or less just killed it and got the tow, you may be able to just fill it up and crank it (wisely) until it runs.

 

If you cranked it for an extended time and really drew the air in, you are in for the full boat of priming sequences.

 

Rob

[CobraMarty]

Ok, yes we cranked it for a long time.  Even shot in some WD40 into the intake manifold, it sort of worked then died.  Probably not a great idea. 

We added 3 gallons of fuel and cranked and cranked and then got towed to home.

 

Came home and tried to prime it by using a hand vacuum pump and got it all primed and cranked and nothing.  Diesel mechanic friend said you will never prime it with only a couple gallons and recommended adding like 10 gallons.  We went back and forth to the gas station with 2.5 gallon jug and added 9 gallons of fuel.  Cranked and cranked and nothing.

 

Loosened 2 of the fuel lines on the back of the IP and cranked and no fuel.  WTF.

 

Looked closer at the IP and right above the fuel line outputs is this sensor/solenoid looking thing with a wire coming off it not connected to anything.  What the heck is that?  Quick pic and it is the 'Fuel Shutoff'.  No way.  It is how the diesel engine gets turned off.  It requires 12v+ to open and allow fuel to flow to the high pressure pump and to the injectors.  The other end of the wire is hanging down barely visible.  Put a meter on it and sure enough it goes 12v+ when the key is turned on.  Reconnect the very loose fitting connector and give it a crank.  It FIRES right up!  It seems that the loose connector came loose and disconnected itself and shut off the fuel cutoff.  Tightened the conector reconnect and it fires up again.  Balls, this was the problem and not running out of gas.

 

The gas gauge was just below 1/2, added 2.5 gallons and then another 9 gallons and the gauge went to just above 3/4.  Can't be.  Drove to the gas station and it took another 6 gallons and it was full and the gauge reads full.  It is a 32 gallon aftermarket tank.  So we never did run out of fuel as we originally thought.  It was the wire to the Fuel Cutoff solenoid that came disconnected and shut off the fuel to the HP side of the IP, just like the key was off. 

 

Diesels are wierd.  It is running good again.  Getting inspected and new brakes this weekend.  Did learn a lot today.

[CobraMarty]

Hopefully not a new issue.  Filled the tank full and put on like 600 miles and just below 1/2 tank started running bad, no power and sputtering.  Filled it up and ran fine.  Could be crud in the tank, gel in the tank or the pick-up doesn't go deep enough in the 32 gallon tank.  Going to have to watch this closely.  Might need to pull the sending unit/pick-up or drop the tank and check.

[CobraMarty]

Next latest,

alternator was squeeling and thought it was the belt slipping and would tighten it and would be better fro awhile and then squeel again more.  Alternator finally decided to stop charging.  Now need to locate an alternator.  Rockauto and Autozone show 2 different ones.  One 70amp without A/C and another 60amp with A/C.  Each look similiar but have different pulleys.  Wierd is we have A/C but our pulley looks like the one alt for w/o A/C.  I ordered both from autozone, free shipping and 20% off and can return either to local store for refund.

 

Stock replacement springs came in the mail, need to p/u the stock track bar at autozone and then will remove the 3" lift kit and shocks and reinstall stock height parts.  Will replace the 31" tires with stock turbine like rims and General Grabber AT2 225/70x15, $100 each at wally world and during Septenber $70 visa gift card with purchase of 4 tires.  WIN!

 

Tried charging the A/C and it took a vacum OK with no leaks and took R134 and then it all leaked out the bad schrader valve.  Always something.

[CobraMarty]

Is it true-?

 

New Sticker List Price, in 1985, $18,657

[CobraMarty]

New alternator came.  AutoZone #14892, Looks the same.

 

Hopefully today my son will change the alternator, remove the front lift springs and shocks, track bar, quick disconnects, and replace with new stock height springs, monroe shocks, stock track bar and sway bar links and new front rotors and pads.

Next will remove rear lift springs and shocks and replace with stock height leafs, monroe shocks and new rear brakes. 

Then stock 15" 'turbine' wheels, new General Grabber AT2 225/70R15 tires and then alignment.

[CobraMarty]

Alternator replaced and working well.

 

New issue on 3 different occasions. When the fuel gets to about 1/2 tank, the engine stumbles, stalls at idle and barely runs, like it is out of fuel.  Top off the tank and it works fine again.

Noticed a small leak at the fuel tank.  ?Sucking air?

The tank is an aftermarket 32 gallon 'gas' tank.  Was it installed incorrectly?

Is the fuel pump in the injector pump failing and losing suction? 

Does it need a 'booster' electric fuel pump back at the tank?

 

So yesterday dropped the fuel tank, found taht the leak was a loose clamp on the return line.

Pulled the tank draw/return plate out of the tank and found a very dirty nearly clogged 'filter sock' on the end of the fuel pickup.  Tried to source a new one and couldn't find one, so just replaced the draw tube with a copper piece and set it to 1/2" off the bottom.  Added new lines and clamps and reinstalled.  Apparently diesels don't use that in tank fuel sock.

Changed the fuel filter/separator in the engine compartment with a new AC Delco part.  Who knows how old the one in place was.

Decided to give it a try before installing the electric 'booster' pump.

 

Cranked it and it definitely self primed and started right up.  Sputtered at first and then settled down to a nice smooth idle.  With the 1/2 tank of fuel in it currently, before it was stalling.

Took it for a test drive.  Smooth, accelerated without stumbling or hesitation, seemes a bit faster, smoother and quieter that before.  Drove it 30 minutes and we couldn't get it to replicate the problem it was having before.

Seems fixed for now.  We think that the filter sock was meant for the 'Gas' use of the 32 gallon tank and not diesel.  Between the clogged filter sock and an unknown fuel filter ? clogged, these 2 things were causing enough restriction in the supply line that the fuel pump couldn't suck hard enough to get fuel.  At full tank there is slightly increased pressure on hte fuel to help push it up and out the supply line.  As it became close to 1/2 tank there was less pressure due to the weight of the fuel to 'help push' the fuel out.  At least that is our current theory.  A booster pump would have also fixed the problem but that would just be MM and cover up the clogged filter sock and fuel filter.

 

Today tackling the brakes and suspension.