starting issues (formerly buying advice)

[dunl]

I hate being internet taught. :(

 

Good news is that after it was pointed out that I had the dimmer switch instead of the ignition, I found one plug loose. In it went, and on came gauges.

 

Now it is spitting every few seconds, trying to start. I can hear the fuel pump and smell gas. But she doesn't want to catch...any ideas?

 

Thanks for all the help so far.

[freakjeep93]

dump abit of gas down the throttle body of into the cylinders this will prime the motor and help it start.

 

good luck :cheers:

[dunl]

Okay, I THINK the distributor was off by 180, but now that I have the notch on the crank pulley lined up with the timing marks, the rotor is between #1 and #4 on the cap.

 

Figured I'd ask how to fix this before I mess something up or do it the hard way. I assume I can just loosen the bolts and rotate it?

 

Thanks so far.

[dunl]

Okay, they skipped a tooth.. so now that's fixed.

 

Spark plugs...oh yeah, they were changed....2 out of 6.

 

Like my wife says...."it probably died because of the loose ignition switch plug, but because they started messing with everything else...."

[dunl]

New plugs, properly gapped, no luck. :hmm:

[Wildman]

How fresh is the gas??

 

If it's spitting and trying to start, and you check every thing else, try some fresh gas if it's been sitting for any amount of time, But, drain out the old gas first.

 

I'm not sure I read this right.......but......

 

You wrote about the distributor being off..........you can not just loosen the bolt and turn it, the distributor sits in a notch and can not be turned, the rotor has to be pointing at #1 and you need to make sure cyl #1 is at TDC in the compression stroke.

 

The ECU controls the spark advance.

[dunl]

I pulled the distrib and rotated it one tooth....seemed to line up fine.

 

Gas is unknown....tank is almost empty, so I will drain it.

 

On another forum it was suggested maybe a slipping timing chain?

[Wildman]

If your tank is almost empty, that could be the problem right there.

 

Yea, I would drain whats left, and put some fresh gas in, at least 3-4 gallons.......if your sitting on level ground.......more if not.

 

OK......I got you on the dizzy, I was not sure that you did make the correction on that.

 

On another forum it was suggested maybe a slipping timing chain?

 

Theres other forums out there :eek:

 

Now that I didn't know..........I thought this was the only forum :hmm:

 

Yes, the timing chain could be stretched. How many miles on this thing???

 

A way to check "slop" in the timing chain is to set the #1 at TDC, take off the cap, turn the crank CW until the rotor moves very slightly, then turn the crank CCW to and see how far the crank moves before the rotor moves, it should be very minimal, any sizable amount, the chain is stretched, and more than likely in need of replacement.

[dunl]

Okay, maybe I'm not getting fuel. I pressed the schraeder valve, and a little blurp of fuel came out. That's it. With the key on, shouldn't that valve keep spraying fuel? I never thought to check with the key before.

 

I checked under to look at draining, and noticed that one of the lines is loose...the feed line, near the tank. Soaks when I wiggle it....needs replaced, but would this mess with the pressure? Wouldn't the pump keep feeding it until the system pressurizes, and if I kept the valve open, wouldn't that also make the pump keep running?

[Wildman]

With the key on, the rail is pressurized, at about 34-39 psi, and the fuel will shoot out of the schraeder valve. Once the rail is pressurized, the fuel pump stops pumping, and will run when the pressure drops, it cycles in other words.

 

With the key off, the fuel will just dribble out of the valve.

 

This could be your low fuel level in the tank.

 

If the fuel lines look kind of shot, replace them, and make sure you get some "high pressure" fuel lines, not low pressure lines, you need this for the FI.

 

Would the bad line cause pressure issues..........yea, if the line is "blotted" and causing a restriction, this could be messing with the fuel pump, and not sending the proper pressure to the rail, or the proper amount of fuel.

[dunl]

With the key on, the rail is pressurized, at about 34-39 psi, and the fuel will shoot out of the schraeder valve. Once the rail is pressurized, the fuel pump stops pumping, and will run when the pressure drops, it cycles in other words.

 

With the key off, the fuel will just dribble out of the valve.

 

With the key off, nothing comes out of the valve after the blurp of fuel. The pump initially pressures up...but when I release the valve, the pump does not cycle.

 

This could be your low fuel level in the tank.

 

Wish I knew if the sender was correct. Will the pump keep trying to run if the tank is empty?

 

If the fuel lines look kind of shot, replace them, and make sure you get some "high pressure" fuel lines, not low pressure lines, you need this for the FI.

 

Would the bad line cause pressure issues..........yea, if the line is "blotted" and causing a restriction, this could be messing with the fuel pump, and not sending the proper pressure to the rail, or the proper amount of fuel.

 

No restrictions unless it is the fuel filter. also, after the initial pressure release, it takes cycling the key a few times to get anything again, as if the pump still thinks there is pressure.

[dasbulliwagen]

With the key on engine off, the pump will initially run for about 1-3 seconds and shut off. It will not cycle on and off with the engine not running. After the initial pump up, the computer then looks to see if the engine is turning or running and will turn the pump back on to keep up pressure. If the engine stalls the pump shuts off... this is a safety feature. The only way to keep the pump running with the engine off is to jump the fuel pump relay to keep power going to the pump. This should allow you to test pressure with the engine off. And replace the fuel filter just because... to eliminate that as the problem, they don't cost that much. You should be able to hear the pump run in the tank also if you are real close. If it is running when jumping the power to it from the relay, it could be that it is no longer building enough pressure, of there could be a bad hose in the tank running from the pump motor itself to the pump bracket where it exits the tank. That would be a cheap easy fix. If any of the other hoses are bad, this one could be too.

 

As for how to jump the relay... first find the fuel pump relay. Pull the relay out. Some of them have little diagrams on them to show where and how the power is routed. You need to find a short peice of wire stripped at both ends and bent into a U shape. Look at your relay and see how each pin is related to it connector and jump across the two terminal numbered 87 and 30. This will send power to the pump. Just don't let it run too long with no fuel in the tank or for any extended period with the engine not running.

 

I hope this helps. Good luck!

[dunl]

With the key on engine off, the pump will initially run for about 1-3 seconds and shut off. It will not cycle on and off with the engine not running. After the initial pump up, the computer then looks to see if the engine is turning or running and will turn the pump back on to keep up pressure. If the engine stalls the pump shuts off... this is a safety feature.

 

Okay, that explains why there is no continual pressure.

 

The only way to keep the pump running with the engine off is to jump the fuel pump relay to keep power going to the pump. This should allow you to test pressure with the engine off.

 

Okay....

 

And replace the fuel filter just because... to eliminate that as the problem, they don't cost that much. You should be able to hear the pump run in the tank also if you are real close. If it is running when jumping the power to it from the relay, it could be that it is no longer building enough pressure, of there could be a bad hose in the tank running from the pump motor itself to the pump bracket where it exits the tank. That would be a cheap easy fix. If any of the other hoses are bad, this one could be too.

 

Okay, I already figured out how to jump the pump. Now, most parts stores are a 40km round trip for me...so instead of running back and forth for different or unneeded things, what's the most efficient way to go from here? And how much pressure should be coming out?

[dunl]

I jumped the pump and there seems to be pressure. It sprays anyway, and good.

[dasbulliwagen]

Previous poster wildman says 34-39 psi. If you have pressure, then you may be looking at an electrical issue, or timing. The computer may not be telling the injectors to fire. Have you done cam and crank sensors? I don't remember. The cam sensor mount to the distributor if I remember correctly, and the crank sensor is on the trans belhousing.

[dunl]

I did the cps. I haven't done the cam. Timing, okay.....

 

 

Where exactly on this diagram should the terminal for #1 wire be when the engine is at TDC? Just want to make sure I'm right.

[dasbulliwagen]

Just re read whole thread. Have you checked the color of the spark you are getting at the plugs? Maybe spark isnt strong enough? Just another idea. Spark should be strong and blue white in color. If it is yellow and won't jump very far, then maybe you need a new coil.

[dunl]

Spark is blue-white, courtesy of a new coil.

[Wildman]

Here's a link for the Cam PS, testing and replacing........if needed -

 

http://www.lunghd.com/Tech_Articles/Eng ... Stator.htm

 

Thanks for jumping in dasbulliwagen :thumbsup: it was getting late last night, and worked all day today :(

[dunl]

Here's a link for the Cam PS, testing and replacing........if needed -

 

http://www.lunghd.com/Tech_Articles/Eng ... Stator.htm

 

Thanks for jumping in dasbulliwagen :thumbsup: it was getting late last night, and worked all day today :(

 

Okay, I'll check that out as well. Thanks for everything so far, people.

 

So just to recap:

 

1. purchased non-running. Was told that it stopped while being backed out of the garage one day.

2. changed the cps to find that it still wouldn't start. No gauges, nothing.

3. jumped the pump, sounded fine.

4. found the loose plug on the ignition switch. Gauges now, fuel pump when the key turns, but no start.

5. Distributor seemed to be off 180, and skipped a tooth.

6. Changed the plugs, properly gapped. 2 out of 6 were new.

7. New coil, as the older one gave indeterminate readings. Why not, eh?

8. New fuel filter, new gas, premium at that.

 

Now, trying to check TDC again, I had a HELLVA hard time turning the crank at some spots compared to yesterday. Others, quite easy.

 

Thoughts?

[Wildman]

The engine will turn hard at a couple points, when cyls are near compression stroke, that's normal........unless you pull the plugs :brows:

 

This is like the XJ I helped a "kid" with the past 2 weeks, many problems with his, and too many "cooks" in the mix........ got it running, and then it quit last Friday.........spent a day on it, jumped the pump at the relay, and got pressure, but the pump didn't cycle, traced it down to the ground wire on the ECU :eek:

 

Tossing that at you.

 

His was a rats nest under the dash.........I steered clear of that mess......until we found the loose hanging ground wire :roll: Reattached the ground wire, and it fired right up.

 

He had a "few" other things to fix.........like a harmonica balancer that was ready to fall off, Yes, there not to be a 1/2" of space between the two pieces, with the belt riding on only 2 grooves :no:

 

But, he's up and running.......now he just needs to "pay" his debt to me for parts and time.

[dunl]

"It's alive....ALIVE!!!"

 

 

 

:clapping: :bowdown: :D

 

Had a friend come over with a fresh set of eyes to look, found my dyslexic spark plug mistake, and we reindexed the distrib at TDC.

 

However, at around 80km or so, we both found out what Death Wobble feels like. :(

[Wildman]

:clapping:

 

Good.........now I don't need to stay up late typing things to check :D

 

So........how you like that death wobble?????

 

Kind of "shake" things up a bit??? Bet you thought the front wheel fell off didn't you :eek:

[dunl]

This is my fun rig:

 

 

Death Wobble is only about twice as bad as this rig up to highway speed with those tires. :D

[dunl]

BTW, thanks to everyone who chimed in to help....four forums, a little over the week, generous help, all equals one running Comanche. :)