Gubachoo

Thanks, me too. Hmm, yeah thats odd. I like it. It's not large by any means. I think its a practical size. I don't have to step up or down to get into it, and the bed is at a perfect working height now. I think those people may be purists who believe it's stock or it's stupid. Either way, it's my truck and I like it.

I didn't see another pop up, that may have just been my thread you saw? You know, I'm still undecided. There is no issue, save the aesthetics, and I'm not super big on those, so I'm really not sure. I could do it, but in the name of function, I can't see why I would need to. It wouldn't be that big of a deal to do, I need to put in up in the air, spend some time contemplating, and decide if it's worth it.

Haha, thats them. Make me go faster and look cooler

Damn. I was hoping to not do something like that. It will have to wait until the spring. I agree that I don't like it, I just wish I could find others who have HC springs and see if this is normal for them, or if smoke is being blown up my skirt. While the location looks odd, I have put probably 1000 miles on it since then with 0 issues. The perches are actually in good condition. The rust on this is almost totally on the body (the heavy stuff at least) as everything else had a healthy undercoat that was clearly touched up once in a while by the original owner (military man who owned it and took good care of it for its first 285,000) so the drilling of the perches is doable, I just find myself resistant to that because it then means I spent 650 on incorrect springs which sure makes me red in the face.

Hmm... I had thought about that but I'm not a big fan of fixes like that. Hose clamps around axle shafts are pretty hinky repairs, no offense meant, just not my style. I think in the spring I will remove the axle and machine a groove for a snapring to hold it in place. For now I would like to get the fork just to get me through the winter.

And that's that. Hope it helps people out. Shout out any questions if you want.

And lastly with the New 31's on board.

Looks Goofy all jacked up with those tiny tires...

And here is post lift pre tires

Now for the spring side by side comparison

More Pre-lift

Hey guys, I had always hoped that I would find a thread like this when I was researching my lift and didn't (no need to throw links at me now because I'm bad at searching, just telling the story) so I figured I would make my own. Honestly not sure if this belongs here or in the build thread, but since its just a repair/upgrade over a weekend I figured here made sense, it will be moved I'm sure if I am wrong. So my jeep, like most of ours, had most of the original suspension components on it and my tires were almost gone so I did my research and finally decided on Hellcreek for my suspension. I am a tall guy and the bed height always annoyed me as did feeling like I was getting into a car more than getting into a truck when I opened the door and headed for the seat. My truck had the 215's stock and I put 235's I had on it when I bought it in 2011. I Now, something that I did not know and many of you guys may not (that I would have liked to know beforehand) is that Tom at Hellcreek basically just deals in the rear springs and contracts out all other components such as front coils and shocks etc. I called Tom and had a great conversation with him and (after annoying him with my indecision at finding these facts out) ordered a set of 4.5 lift rear springs. These are not cheap at about 650 shipped, but as anyone reading this knows, we don't have a ton of choices and I had heard good things about Tom and liked him a lot in our conversation and he had been very helpful and patient in answering my questions. I had not heard great things about the company he used to contract the front kit (will remain unnamed but it's spoken about here a lot) especially when I found out what shocks they used and found out I could not order a kit without shocks. I knew I wanted to do everything in one shot in one weekend and go with the best components I could afford and I had set aside some money to do this whole thing. I had decided to go with Rubicon express for the rest of the components so I ordered their full Cherokee kit (the AAL spring steel being a bonus as I like to do a little amateur blacksmithing) with the Monotube Shocks. I called them and found out they use Tenneco (Monroe) shocks which I have always liked a lot. Plus the adjustable upper control arms, tubular lowers, and adjustable track bar. Extended braided brake hoses and (from Tom @HC) the adjustable control rod for the rear brakes. So all this in hand, and a colder weekend than I planned on, I started on saturday morning on the floor of the garage. Now when I had done this, and reinstalled the rear axle I noticed that it was located differently than it was before (being stationed an inch or two fore of where it was with the old springs) and after double checking I had done everything right I came here and asked the opinion of the community and also emailed Tom @HC to ask him. While waiting for him to respond a few people and I hashed out reasons why this could be and what it could affect. Tom eventually emailed me back to say he designed it that way so as to not need a longer driveshaft and the wheel would move up and back when compressed and stay in the wheelwell as designed. This seemed to make sense to me and others, but just so you understand what I am saying when you see the photos. You can read up on it here if you wanna see the discussion and Toms responses. Because I'm kinda a nerd about stuff like this, I took measurements in a bunch of spots before and after lift and before and after the new tires. So there are three sets of measure here. The driveway wasn't perfectly level so the measurements are a little wonky (plus lord knows my truck isn't exactly perfect) but should give you the general idea. I used 31x10.50x15 Wrangler Duratrac tires (my third set and I recommend them highly) and they actually never rub no matter what I have done so far whereas the 235's would rub at full lock on the stock suspension. I was very impressed with the quality of the RI stuff, very well built and accurate, down to the coatings. Joints all moved freely, instructions were clear and comprehensive, parts were well labeled and organized, and fit and finish was great. I was super pleased with how much tighter the front end felt after doing this as well. I went from 30-35 degrees of slop in the steering wheel to maybe 10 and a much more responsive steering system. Obviously the ride was greatly improved being that the shocks were almost a decade old and the springs were all original save the left rear. It is a truck like ride, a little stiff but solid and good road feeling. I actually expected these shocks to be harsher than they are, but am happy they are not. We will see how they change as they settle in. Also while doing this I figured I would crack open my front axle disconnect to find out why my 4wd had recently quit and hopefully replace the lost snapring or whatever (had previously machined a groove in the shaft holding the fork to keep it in the locked position) and found the fork had broken! So as a side note, anyone got a junk D30 they would sell me the fork out of cheap? Pretty please? It just started snowing a lot here in northern VT... in the mean time, thank god for good tires... So I don't know how to/if it's possible to post photos at intervals so I'll just throw them all in here in an order that hopefully makes sense with the photos following the corresponding diagrams. The diagrams show my measurements at the corners at the lower points of the bumpers, at the bottom lip of the top of the wheelwells, and the axle tubes (which obviously didn't change until the tires did, but it would have annoyed me to not put that measurement in there... haha) and like I said, not perfectly level truck or driveway and it's rounded to the closest 1/2". The first set is Pre lift. Please ignore my New England speed holes.

The lower lift was my original preference, but one of the reasons I wanted to lift it is I am pretty tall and I use the truck bed à lot and the height of it is so low at stock height as to bother my back. So I did the math and figured with the 4.5 and 31's it would put it at the height I wanted vs the 3. That was my rational. We'll see if it works. I sat down with my buddy who is an engineer and we talked about it while looking at the truck. While we agree it would be good to be an inch or two further back, we couldn't see any big problems arising and his explanation holds water. I guess I'll do that. Here's hoping...

Yeah, they are the same

OK, so while I was posting that last one, Tom at Hellcreek emailed me back. This is his reply "The rear axle on my Comanche with the prototype springs ( the one pictured on our website) is 2 inches closer to the front of the wheel well after 6 years of daily driving. We designed the springs that way because, as the truck is loaded or the rear springs are flexed, the axle goes backwards toward the bumper. Since the front end is fixed, it never goes toward the front. This keeps the tires from rubbing when the truck is loaded or the springs are flexed. Also, if the springs were farther back, especially with a 4.5” lift, it would most likely necessitate the use of a slip yoke eliminator to prevent the slip yoke from sliding out of the transmission or transfer case, or at the least riding at the end of the limit and causing all kinds of vibration problems. This is the best compromise we could come up with, and, so far, everyone has been satisfied. They will settle some over time and look better, but they will never be exactly centered. When I measured them on my truck, I went from the bottom of the fender flare to the tire with the ruler pointed directly at the hub. It measured 4” at the front and 6” at the rear. Those figures will change with tire size. I hope this helps." I don't know. This is a reasonable explanation, and it does seem to drive fine, but is this really correct... Has anyone else used a HC 4.5 lift that can weigh in? I am supposed to mount the tires tomorrow and then drive to northern VT for the winter on Friday. On honest inspection of the whole thing, there does not appear to be anything that will rub or change with the geometry or give me any problems like that. I don't think it looks right, but Tom's explanation does make sense even if the appearance isn't like stock. Most lifts I have seen are AAL for these which would also pivot the axle a little forward. hmmm

So I'm the only one home right now, but tried to measure anyways. It is approx 54.5 eye to eye as it sit right now. Looking at the chart posted previously it looks like the measurement follows the arch of the spring but with only me here I can't really pull that off at the moment. According to the chart they are short, but accounting for the arc I think it's not far off... and the eye to pin measurement on the chart seems correct to mine (pre lift at least) Here are some shackle pics I just snapped as it sits on somewhat level ground

Damnit... This is my daily driver and I just spent the weekend getting it done and I have to move next weekend 5 hours away... Ugh. Just sent an email to Tom at HC with more photos. I'll include those here too as reference for you guys. This is pre and post lift, same tires. When I laid the springs side by side the pin looked off, but then I laid them on top of one another and they were close enough (less than an inch of difference) that I figured this small offset was just part of how they had to be considering the extra arch. Hmm. Well at least for once the intense rust isn't the most glaringly terrible thing about my truck...

They are the 4.5 advertised spring from HC (actually produced by Atlas spring in CA) I measured about 4 - 4.5 lift after installed all around, so that was correct. Yeah, I'm at a loss... Maybe its ok? I compressed the springs with the jack last night at the wheel and the tire obviously moves back a little as it moves up and doesn't contact the flare, and looks like it won't with the 31's, but that sure would suck...

I didn't measure eye to eye before I installed, but I did pull the old spring out and lay the new on top to compare and they were almost identical (except for the extra leaf and obviously extra arching due to them being lift springs) so they are definitely MJ springs. Everything seems to fit and sit perfect save the axle location (which may not be wrong judging by hornbrods photo of his truck) and the shackles sit leaning aft slightly just as they are supposed to.

But what is the alternative? I tried to do the research and paid a little more money for what people said were the better made components. I agree and would love to stick with OEM, but for lift springs... what choice do we have?

Wow, This is an interesting little chart. Thanks

No paperwork, just springs with shipping labels on them. I laid them on top of the old ones, and checked the measurements and, with the exception of the extra leaf and extra arch, were the same as the stock ones I pulled out. Yeah, they shipped directly from Atlas Spring. Hmm... I'll call him tomorrow. And I checked the shackles, although they are not the same that you have (lifted shackles you have there?) they are oriented in the same way. It seems my gap is close to or equal to the gap you have. I assume you have no issues with yours? Can I ask what suspension you have under there? Thanks. I will double check, but I remember my perches only having a center hole. I plan on calling Hellcreek tomorrow to ask him about it. I don't have a problem drilling the spring plate (except that I have to take it all out again...) but drilling the perch would be a tough proposition. Or at least an annoyingly time consuming one...I'll check all this and call tomorrow and hopefully have an update. As an aside, the slip yoke didn't bottom out at compression, so I took it for a test drive around the block a few times and all seems to be good. Will do a short write up on the lift and install since I haven't seen one up here when I searched. Might be helpful for people. Thanks for the help guys.