Advance Adapters ax15 transmission and external slave kit. Link to YouTube video

[Htchevyii]

Update, the new parts are all installed and working well. I'll post a link to the YouTube video that I made that covers the external slave swap using the Advance Adapters kit and their new AX15 as well as the transfer case refresh.

 

 

Hi guys, on our last trip the LUK internal slave cylinder completely gave out with just 15000 miles in it. We drove almost 500 miles home with no clutch. This prompted a conversion to the external slave setup. I decided to just buy the brand new AX15 that Advance sells at the same time, since my current trans has close to 300k on it. Here's a few things I learned that might help someone.

-The kit comes with almost everything you need, but no front input seal 

-The instructions suck, all I ask is for one decent photo or illustration of the clutch fork setup.

- I didn't trust the included non branded throw out bearing, so I purchased a National. It looks of higher quality and seemed to spin smoother.

-I redrilled the rear housing to the XJ,MJ pattern. Someone posted a file for a 3D printed drill guide and I had my friend make me one. It worked awesome. I can't remember where I got the file from now. I believe the OE holes are 11MM. I used the next size smaller standard bit and it still slid right together.

-AA says to use only a particular Mopar 10w30 or Redline MTL. My dealer didn't have the 10W30, so I ordered Redline from Summit Racing. Actually, I ordered the transmission and slave kit from Summit as well.

-I'm assuming that I voided the warranty by drilling the new holes. Novak will send you one pre drilled, but it was a few hundred bucks more. There are also clocking rings available.

- I found people (Motor trend) didn't receive or lost the fork retainer clip on the pivot and had to pull the trans. 

- I am still trying to figure out if it matters which direction the clutch fork is mounted? You can't tell in their picture and their tech section on their website is down. Conflicting info everywhere. I did find a diagram on Repair link, do I am going with that unless someone knows better and soon . 

 

Here is a link to the drill jig file if you have or know someone who can print it for you.

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5665772

 

[Htchevyii]

[ghetdjc320]

Funny, I’ve never seen the pivot ball retaining clip for the fork. Never had any issues. It can’t come out of alignment due to the pressure plate/slave cylinder/pivot ball combo. Easy enough to realign through the slave cylinder hole though if it does. 

[Limeyjeeper]

Here are some pics of how the fork should look with the thrust bearing mounted. It doesn't matter which way the fork goes there is no offset.

 

 

 

 

[BlueDove91]

Thanks for sharing all the info. 

I'm pretty new with this stuff, so I have a few questions. My (newer) internal slave is failing (again) and I'm getting ready to finally do this swap as well:

 

- Why do those new holes need to be drilled? Is it necessary? I don't have a 3D printer, or a friend w one. 

- Front input seal...is that basically a gasket that goes on the face of the bell housing where it mates toward the engine?

- Are clocking rings, or clocking, something I should know about? I haven't seen that mentioned in other writeups for this conversion. 

 

Just wanting to be thorough in my prep/understanding so I don't get halfway into the job only to discover I don't have what I need, or realize afterwards I did something wrong. Thanks!

[ghetdjc320]

45 minutes ago, BlueDove91 said:

Why do those new holes need to be drilled? Is it necessary? I don't have a 3D printer, or a friend w one. 

- Front input seal...is that basically a gasket that goes on the face of the bell housing where it mates toward the engine?

- Are clocking rings, or clocking, something I should know about? I haven't seen that mentioned in other writeups for this conversion. 

The new holes were drilled because it is a new transmission. Most new AX15’s will have the standard “wrangler” tcase clocking. The XJ and MJ clock the tcase down a few degrees further. If you are reusing your original ax15 tranny you will not need to do this step. If you buy a new ax15, you will notice that the mounting flange has some extra material counter clockwise of the existing tcase holes. That extra material is a provision for the XJ/MJ mounting patterns but would have to be drilled. 

 

The front input seal is located in the bearing retainer plate. When you switch to an external slave setup, you will need a traditional style throw out beating. That bearing needs to ride on a shaft to keep it centered with the clutch pressure plate. The shaft in this case is let of the “bearing retainer snout”. This part is available new from aisin for under $100 and typically includes the front seal already installed but apparently the advance adapters unit did not have it. 
 

No clocking ring is needed. They can be used in certain applications where you want to “clock” the transfer case one way or another to tuck it closer to the body or drop it down to clear some other modification. 
 

It should be noted that you can also piece together what you need vs buying the kit. Also, although you can go with a new ax15, you can also go with companies like Marlin Crawler who can build an HD unit with upgraded thrust bearing for 1st gear and upgraded shift forks for the hole unit. They run some serious power in Baja races with their built trannies. The AX15 is very similar to the Toyota R151 truck/suv tranny. 

[Htchevyii]

I had started trying to piece together a kit, but I would have been ordering parts from 4 different sources and buying a used bell housing from eBay. I wasn't really saving much money with all the different shipping charges. Also, Summit had the kit in stock and I received it in 2 days

If you could get a cheap bell housing it would be more feasible. The AA kit that I ordered also had the clutch line and adapters to make the new slave work with the old master cylinder. Those parts are available separately. Basically, it is a braided hose and an adapter for the pin type slave cylinder to AN line, plus an adapter form the master to the AN line.

[BlueDove91]

1 hour ago, ghetdjc320 said:

The new holes were drilled because it is a new transmission. Most new AX15’s will have the standard “wrangler” tcase clocking. The XJ and MJ clock the tcase down a few degrees further. If you are reusing your original ax15 tranny you will not need to do this step. If you buy a new ax15, you will notice that the mounting flange has some extra material counter clockwise of the existing tcase holes. That extra material is a provision for the XJ/MJ mounting patterns but would have to be drilled. 

 

The front input seal is located in the bearing retainer plate. When you switch to an external slave setup, you will need a traditional style throw out beating. That bearing needs to ride on a shaft to keep it centered with the clutch pressure plate. The shaft in this case is let of the “bearing retainer snout”. This part is available new from aisin for under $100 and typically includes the front seal already installed but apparently the advance adapters unit did not have it. 
 

No clocking ring is needed. They can be used in certain applications where you want to “clock” the transfer case one way or another to tuck it closer to the body or drop it down to clear some other modification. 
 

It should be noted that you can also piece together what you need vs buying the kit. Also, although you can go with a new ax15, you can also go with companies like Marlin Crawler who can build an HD unit with upgraded thrust bearing for 1st gear and upgraded shift forks for the hole unit. They run some serious power in Baja races with their built trannies. The AX15 is very similar to the Toyota R151 truck/suv tranny. 

 

 

Hey, thanks for answering those questions that is super helpful info. 

Helps me out a lot. 

One more question to clarify -- which part are you referring to that is available for purchase through aisin? The throwout bearing...or the front input seal...or a shaft?

[BlueDove91]

43 minutes ago, Htchevyii said:

I had started trying to piece together a kit, but I would have been ordering parts from 4 different sources and buying a used bell housing from eBay. I wasn't really saving much money with all the different shipping charges. Also, Summit had the kit in stock and I received it in 2 days

If you could get a cheap bell housing it would be more feasible. The AA kit that I ordered also had the clutch line and adapters to make the new slave work with the old master cylinder. Those parts are available separately. Basically, it is a braided hose and an adapter for the pin type slave cylinder to AN line, plus an adapter form the master to the AN line.

 

Yeah, I live in the middle of nowhere with no good junkyard for jeeps...So that kit is looking pretty good to me. I'm inclined to spend a little bit more on something if it allows me to save on time, energy, headaches, and delays..and is quality. 

 

So it sounds like with that kit, I'd have everything I need other than it being wise to purchase a better quality throwout bearing, and I would also need to source a front input seal somewhere? Are those easily available for purchase anywhere?

 

I currently have a wilwood MC which we installed during the last round of chasing these clutch hydraulic system issues (I've had all clutch/clutch system parts replaced and have had three seasoned mechanics at a loss for what to do over the last year). We also upgraded to a braided steel hydraulic line...so I won't really need that from the kit, unless the line is a different length between the internal vs external setup.

I would probably upgrade to a better slave cylinder option as well, just bc I'm ready to have this thing work and last. 

But as I said...I'm willing to cut the loss on that for the convenience of it all coming in one kit and fast. 

 

Other than the Redline...is there anything else I'm missing that I might need? Gaskets?

[Htchevyii]

I  believe that National PN 223253  or equivalent is the front seal that fits into the front cover, (third picture from the top). If you are already running an -3AN line, you might just need the adapter that fits into the slave cylinder. They show the part numbers in the bill of materials below, but the kit came with an extra one that didn't fit my application, so I don't know which would be the correct part number.

 

[ghetdjc320]

The slave cylinder that comes with that kit is plastic and lacks a decent bleed screw. There is a metal version that has a good bleed system but I forget who makes it. You can keep your Wilwood master provided it’s the right size bore (ran one before on my YJ). Grab a used oem bellhousing. They will often come with the fork and pivot ball if you grab one on eBay. A good National/timken/koyo throw out bearing and maybe a clutch kit if you need one. You’ll need the slave cylinder and bearing retainer and that’s it. Cheaper than the kit and better quality. You’ll sacrifice some time though to source the parts but they are easy to find, eBay and rock auto will have all you need minus maybe the -3an to slave fitting. If you switch back to an oem Renix style master, you’ll need a 7/16 inverted flare to -3an. And remember that your pilot tip on older ax15’s is slightly smaller so you’ll need to order the pilot for your year tranny and engine if you decide to change that. 

[ghetdjc320]

Parts:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/283935073099?epid=13032515528&hash=item421bd9634b:g:-cEAAOSwd3Ne~h6v&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAA4IdVAEHl%2F0ynxsisSWaVk9bYD3xVq3C%2BcdWkcbXdgQYOhadaa%2BynGbI3QFT24cW7PsaOhOinOK8hpMlM%2BPa1XpG8TC5U1lh6M8%2BP7sV5PhDNLRtED7C0ZMxyteuQa%2BM7UGWEf3mM6wBGr%2FG9vOkG11VZIacR5jxyZMJwtD30pV7kDI5dgkQT0xkC3W8hbY1iDwLgaHLS3kwxzQ1mDGBXviK1EkGMaVge8y%2BnwlofzHirAk%2Fvv7PgLjf0Rb7Abae%2BEzFxEJZxGm%2F%2BEN5AtZdUGuocugjCximU2tYMZMhR4M6K|tkp%3ABFBM7q-r6I1h
 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/284936996104?epid=5018356666&hash=item4257918508:g:wdEAAOSw5cNYgVBr&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAoKjtOy%2BNoT7efsIOM2TJTRdR%2FCMPd6whb8UoEY24TnamTX%2FZiAf5ktigQB6lUIvCi2BMT64XZShkRjgyoDsjI0YcLv59BV5E9Pp%2FraMcjCsod8HwETTGdP3GXrid6%2FaEOYR9lHDu4zepZYP1gksW0ZzHa6Ub1bWqCs2pq7HFq5rzPn%2B0hZZPjApIIDytJy%2F1RthSd9XN%2BdGYAn8U%2FbBSpMA%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR5bjs-iNYQ
 

The metal slave with bleeder I got is from quickdraw but I know they are sourcing that elsewhere. I’d ask them where since it’s not the luk unit I was thinking 

[BlueDove91]

3 hours ago, ghetdjc320 said:

The slave cylinder that comes with that kit is plastic and lacks a decent bleed screw. There is a metal version that has a good bleed system but I forget who makes it. You can keep your Wilwood master provided it’s the right size bore (ran one before on my YJ). Grab a used oem bellhousing. They will often come with the fork and pivot ball if you grab one on eBay. A good National/timken/koyo throw out bearing and maybe a clutch kit if you need one. You’ll need the slave cylinder and bearing retainer and that’s it. Cheaper than the kit and better quality. You’ll sacrifice some time though to source the parts but they are easy to find, eBay and rock auto will have all you need minus maybe the -3an to slave fitting. If you switch back to an oem Renix style master, you’ll need a 7/16 inverted flare to -3an. And remember that your pilot tip on older ax15’s is slightly smaller so you’ll need to order the pilot for your year tranny and engine if you decide to change that. 

Right on, thank you. 

 

As for the Wilwood MC bore, I don't remember. I know Summit said the MC was good for my specific truck so I went with it, along with the support of the mechanic working on it. How would I ensure if a new slave would be compatible for it? 

 

My truck is a 91 Base, 2wd. 4.0 L HO. 

 

 

 

Clutch components are all new as of last November, which is when my slave went out the first time and we tore into it all.

 

By the end of a *months-long* saga of repeatedly getting the truck back from the mechanic, only for it to exhibit pedal abnormalities and poor shifting, we had replaced the slave twice, master twice, line once, and put in an all-new clutch system. I believe he was using the so-called "higher quality" Luk slave cylinders both times. When we replaced the hydro line, I know they had to get an adapter to connect it to the slave as well.

 

 

 

And of course we bled the snot out of it every which way during those months. Now it's feeling like it's slowly going out again -- but thankfully not all at once like the first time. Last month I had a different mechanic bleed it due to air pockets, and he said the fluid came out really dark, if not black. 

 

 

 

If I can afford the time, I will see if I can gather those parts together. Because it is my daily driver, these things tend to have a unique urgency when they happen, haha. Trying for a more pre-emptive approach this time.  

[BlueDove91]

4 hours ago, Htchevyii said:

I  believe that National PN 223253  or equivalent is the front seal that fits into the front cover, (third picture from the top). If you are already running an -3AN line, you might just need the adapter that fits into the slave cylinder. They show the part numbers in the bill of materials below, but the kit came with an extra one that didn't fit my application, so I don't know which would be the correct part number.

 

Okay, thanks!

[ghetdjc320]

7 minutes ago, BlueDove91 said:

Right on, thank you. 

 

As for the Wilwood MC bore, I don't remember. I know Summit said the MC was good for my specific truck so I went with it, along with the support of the mechanic working on it. How would I ensure if a new slave would be compatible for it? 

 

My truck is a 91 Base, 2wd. 4.0 L HO. 

 

 

 

Clutch components are all new as of last November, which is when my slave went out the first time and we tore into it all.

 

By the end of a *months-long* saga of repeatedly getting the truck back from the mechanic, only for it to exhibit pedal abnormalities and poor shifting, we had replaced the slave twice, master twice, line once, and put in an all-new clutch system. I believe he was using the so-called "higher quality" Luk slave cylinders both times. When we replaced the hydro line, I know they had to get an adapter to connect it to the slave as well.

 

 

 

And of course we bled the snot out of it every which way during those months. Now it's feeling like it's slowly going out again -- but thankfully not all at once like the first time. Last month I had a different mechanic bleed it due to air pockets, and he said the fluid came out really dark, if not black. 

 

 

 

If I can afford the time, I will see if I can gather those parts together. Because it is my daily driver, these things tend to have a unique urgency when they happen, haha. Trying for a more pre-emptive approach this time.  

Yeah those slave cylinders just don’t bleed well at all. It’s easier to bench bleed the entire setup before install. Or get the pre-bled master/slave setup. 

[BlueDove91]

4 hours ago, ghetdjc320 said:

The slave cylinder that comes with that kit is plastic and lacks a decent bleed screw. There is a metal version that has a good bleed system but I forget who makes it. You can keep your Wilwood master provided it’s the right size bore (ran one before on my YJ). Grab a used oem bellhousing. They will often come with the fork and pivot ball if you grab one on eBay. A good National/timken/koyo throw out bearing and maybe a clutch kit if you need one. You’ll need the slave cylinder and bearing retainer and that’s it. Cheaper than the kit and better quality. You’ll sacrifice some time though to source the parts but they are easy to find, eBay and rock auto will have all you need minus maybe the -3an to slave fitting. If you switch back to an oem Renix style master, you’ll need a 7/16 inverted flare to -3an. And remember that your pilot tip on older ax15’s is slightly smaller so you’ll need to order the pilot for your year tranny and engine if you decide to change that. 

 

Also...pilot? Pilot bearing? Is that something I need for this swap as well? I've read comments mentioning it...not even sure what it is. I know I sound like a real novice...that's because admittedly I am. On this part of the truck at least. My mechanical experience has always been strictly on an "as-needed" basis. 

[87MJTIM]

The pilot bearing/bushing (PB) is a sleeve that sits inside the back of the engine crank.  The tip of the trans' input shaft fits inside the sleeve when the eng/trans are mated together.  The PB helps keep the input shaft from wobbling.

 

One major issue to consider is the size of the input shaft tip.  The early AX15s (89-93) have a tip that is approx. 1/2".  Later AX15s (94+) have tips that are approx. 3/4".  You need to know the tip size to purchase the correct PB.

[BlueDove91]

On 11/13/2022 at 4:06 AM, 87MJTIM said:

The pilot bearing/bushing (PB) is a sleeve that sits inside the back of the engine crank.  The tip of the trans' input shaft fits inside the sleeve when the eng/trans are mated together.  The PB helps keep the input shaft from wobbling.

 

One major issue to consider is the size of the input shaft tip.  The early AX15s (89-93) have a tip that is approx. 1/2".  Later AX15s (94+) have tips that are approx. 3/4".  You need to know the tip size to purchase the correct PB.

Ah, thank you for that, makes sense. 

My AX-15 is in the first range ('91). So it'd be 1/2 in. Does it already have a PB in there that I can re-use? Or I need to order a new one for the external setup? The original trans is staying in for now. 

[ghetdjc320]

20 minutes ago, BlueDove91 said:

Ah, thank you for that, makes sense. 

My AX-15 is in the first range ('91). So it'd be 1/2 in. Does it already have a PB in there that I can re-use? Or I need to order a new one for the external setup? The original trans is staying in for now. 

If you’re going to have it all apart for a conversion, might as well replace it. 

[87MJTIM]

According to Google, an AT uses a different type of bearing than a MT.  So, I think changing it out is necessary.

 

(I read it on the internet, therefore, it must be true.)

[ghetdjc320]

15 minutes ago, 87MJTIM said:

According to Google, an AT uses a different type of bearing than a MT.  So, I think changing it out is necessary.

 

(I read it on the internet, therefore, it must be true.)

Your switching from an AT to an MT? An AT doesn’t have a pilot bearing. The flex plate bolts directly to the torque converter. 

[87MJTIM]

3 minutes ago, ghetdjc320 said:

Your switching from an AT to an MT? An AT doesn’t have a pilot bearing. The flex plate bolts directly to the torque converter. 

My bad.  He didn't mention AT.  I had replied to another thread where the OP was converting from AT to MT.

[Htchevyii]

Here is a link to the file for the 3D printed drill jig.

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5665772 

[pizzaman09]

Thanks for writing this thread up.  I have the advance adapters kit sitting in my garage awaiting to go in. I'm to the point that I'm bleeding my LUK throw out bearing with about 10k miles on it every three days as it manages to draw in air.  I'm so excited to have a perfectly functioning and good shifting system.

[Htchevyii]

11 hours ago, pizzaman09 said:

Thanks for writing this thread up.  I have the advance adapters kit sitting in my garage awaiting to go in. I'm to the point that I'm bleeding my LUK throw out bearing with about 10k miles on it every three days as it manages to draw in air.  I'm so excited to have a perfectly functioning and good shifting system.

Well, yours did better than mine! After driving 500 miles without a clutch, I was over it, (there's a video of that struggle on YouTube as well). It actually wasn't too bad if I could avoid cities and didn't have to stop on a hill. Then I was screwed because it wouldn't crank over fast enough to start in gear and the JL had to give me a push! I might have been able to start it in low range and then crawl to a flat spot and restart or just jam it in first, but luckily it didn't come to that!

 

 Hopefully there are some helpful tips in the video that will save you a little bit of time.