Household electricity question & powder coating

[schardein]

I just bought a used oven to use for powdercoating.  My workshop is wired for 220 volts.  The oven came with a cord that doesn't fit my wall outlet.  The person I bought the oven from said the cord came with the new oven (they switched to stainless) but didn't match the plug in their home, so they used the old cord (from the oven I have).

 

I don't have the oven manual, and I don't know how much energy it uses.

 

I have this plug (see pic) that I currently use to power an upright 220v air compressor.  Can I buy a cord that fits this plug, and safely use it with the oven?

 

My thought is whatever wattage rating the oven may have, is probably for all the elements on at once?  I'll never do that, in fact I plan to remove 3 of the top burner elements, leaving one for boiling water to test engine coolant thermostats.

 

 

[schardein]

Also, does anyone here do powder coating?  Tips or experiences?  I already have an air compressor & blast cabinet.  Just bought the stove and a Harbor Freight powder coating rig.

[derf]

What is the rating of the breaker for this outlet?  What is the capacity of the wire (usually printed on the wire itself)?

 

Most ovens are 30-50A, all told.  Working current will probably be less since you're only running the oven and not the stove.  It may be a 20A circuit since that's all that a compressor may need.  Double check everything before you just swap out the plug.

 

If you can't find the rating of the wire, make sure it's at least 10ga to support 30A.  Thicker to support more.

[Manche757]

31 minutes ago, schardein said:

 

The receptacle is rated 20amps.

Look at the plate on the appliance to see what the rating in amps is.  

Next look at the wire gauge.  If it is likely 12ga (rated for 20amps if within 50 feet of the panel) but don's assume a prior owner did not change out the receptacle to his needs..

Finally, what is the rating for the breaker?   20amps hopefully.  

Depending on what you find, you should run a new circuit.

What is the rating in amps for your welder?  

[schardein]

Thanks for the replies.

 

This (pic) is the only thing I could find on the oven.  I can't find a wattage or amps usage on it.

 

The workshop was used as a woodworking shop by the original builder.  It's very well built, well insulated, and has 36 110 outlets and 3 220 outlets.  I'd be surprised if anything was under spec, but I'll check.  The two (220 volt wall) outlets look like the one in the picture.  The 3rd is in the ceiling, currently only has wires (no outlet wired in).  I assume he had a large machine in the middle of the floor wired to it directly.

 

The air compressor motor is rated at 15 amps.  The circuit breaker is a two pole 20 amp.

 

The other 220 outlet (same as one in the pic) has a two pole 30 amp circuit breaker.  The ceiling mounted box is also a two pole 30 amp CB.

[derf]

A 30A breaker protecting a 20A plug is a big fire risk.

 

The fact that he's got 30A circuits in there suggests the wiring may be sufficient for 30A.  But double check the actual wires themselves.  10 gauge minimum.  8 would be better.  Any less and you'll want to pull new wire.  And since you're going to do that, pull 50A rated.  May as well.  You can still put a 30A breaker on 50A wire and a 30A plug.

 

If the wires themselves are sufficient, you can easily swap out the breaker to 30A.  And just running the single oven without the stove top burners, you're more likely to run under 30A than not. 

 

Best bet is to find the model number of the oven and google it.  You'd be surprised at how easy it is to find manuals and documentation these days.  That would tell you the rating of the unit.

[schardein]

35 minutes ago, derf said:

A 30A breaker protecting a 20A plug is a big fire risk.

 

The fact that he's got 30A circuits in there suggests the wiring may be sufficient for 30A.  But double check the actual wires themselves.  10 gauge minimum.  8 would be better.

 

If the wires themselves are sufficient, you can easily swap out the breaker to 30A.

 

Best bet is to find the model number of the oven and google it.  You'd be surprised at how easy it is to find manuals and documentation these days.  That would tell you the rating of the unit.

Oven is a Whirlpool, I'll look again for a wattage rating and model number and work the google fu.

 

The outlet in the photo is the one I would like to use, it has the 30 amp CB and is about 3 feet from the breaker panel.  I'll check wire size this afternoon.

 

My common sense meter is telling me this is the plan:

Try to find wattage of oven (hopefully about 30a for oven alone).

Verify wire gauge size in existing circuit is 10 or better.

Buy new cord for oven, at same time buy matching outlet rated at 30 amps.

 

Would you agree an oven rated at XX amps would be for the oven and all top burners on at same time?  I don't know what the industry standard is for wattage ratings on ovens.

[Manche757]

29 minutes ago, schardein said:

 

The air compressor motor is rated at 15 amps.  The circuit breaker is a two pole 20 amp.

 

The air compressor circuit is ok.

 

Look again for the rating plate.  Most likely it is metal and it is often along the edge of the oven when you open the door.  

[derf]

11 minutes ago, schardein said:

Oven is a Whirlpool, I'll look again for a wattage rating and model number and work the google fu.

 

The outlet in the photo is the one I would like to use, it has the 30 amp CB and is about 3 feet from the breaker panel.  I'll check wire size this afternoon.

 

My common sense meter is telling me this is the plan:

Try to find wattage of oven (hopefully about 30a for stove alone).

Verify wire gauge size in existing circuit is 10 or better.

Buy new cord for oven, at same time buy matching outlet rated at 30 amps.

 

Would you agree an oven rated at XX amps would be for the oven and all top burners on at same time?  I don't know what the industry standard is for wattage ratings on ovens.

The amperage rating will be max total.  So yeah, everything on high at once.

 

If you want, it looks like you could easily disconnect the circuit for the burners on the top just by disconnecting some of the wires where you attach the power cord.  That would ensure that you never reach the max load, even by accident.

 

The plan sounds good.  Assuming the wires check out, 30A breaker, 30A wall socket, matching 30A cord with plug for the oven.  Maybe disconnect the wires for the top burners at the back there and you should most likely be good to go.

[schardein]

6 minutes ago, derf said:

If you want, it looks like you could easily disconnect the circuit for the burners on the top just by disconnecting some of the wires where you attach the power cord.  That would ensure that you never reach the max load, even by accident.

 

I was thinking the same thing.

17 minutes ago, Manche757 said:

 

The air compressor circuit is ok.

 

Look again for the rating plate.  Most likely it is metal and it is often along the edge of the oven when you open the door.  

Got excited because I didn't check inside.  But no.  Nothing under the cooktop I could find either.

[schardein]

OK, found it behind the lower drawer.

[schardein]

Is it correct to say 9300 watts divided by 240 volts is 38.75 amps?

 

Downloaded the installation guide and owners manual.  Will read tonight, need to get started on the garden project while still daylight.

[Manche757]

26 minutes ago, schardein said:

Is it correct to say 9300 watts divided by 240 volts is 38.75 amps?

 

Yes.

 

It is your workshop and your stove, but if you are as close as you say to the electric panel, I would suggest you run a new circuit.  There are any number of reasons to leave the stove fully functional, i.e. it could be used when you might have a cook out in the yard,  you could cook something while in the shop or use it at Thanksgiving to cook that extra dish.  

 

Next step would be to look at your panel in your workshop.  If a detached workshop, I assume it is on a branch panel.  What is the panel rated in amps?    Then check your main panel in your house.  What is the amp rating for it?  If you want to go the distance, pull the cover off the main panel and see if the branch panel is connect to a breaker there or if it feeds directly to the main lugs; hopefully not the latter.

[derf]

For just the oven and a fully disconnected stove top, 30A should handle it.  But I'm paranoid and I absolutely would upgrade to a 50A circuit all the way through.

[scguy]

Just curious, how hot do you want to go? I built a smoker from an oven and rewired it to 120V and only used the lower element and it'll hit 300F+ easy.

 

A PID controller box plus SSR isn't hard to put together and would give you very stable temperatures.

 

 

Also, if you look up the replacement elements, they'll have a wattage spec.

[schardein]

OK, time for an update.  But first, THANK YOU to everyone who has replied.  It's great being able to post about nearly anything here at COMANCHE CLUB and get helpful responses.

 

Quick points:

My limited research shows I need to get to 400 degrees to cure powder.

My workshop breaker box gets power straight from the pole.

Main breaker is 100amps.

I have a pole barn behind the workshop, and there is one 15 amp circuit in there, which comes from the workshop breaker box.  I have LED lighting in the pole barn and occasionally run a small air compressor.  Battery trickle charger also, running most the time.

I have a vintage Lincoln 225 arc welder that I've been meaning to try out.  It requires 50amps.

 

I decided to buy a 50 amp plug to match the plug on the welder.  I will buy a matching cable for the stove.  I will switch between the two.  I plan to put the stove on casters, or a base with casters so I can move it out of the way easily when not in use.

 

There is an existing 240v outlet right near the box.  But, the wire is maybe 10 gauge?  I plan to replace the wiring with 6 gauge based off internet research. 

 

I still need a 2gang box to mount the outlet in, a new breaker (50amp?), and maybe the wire.  I have some on hand, just need to check its size.

 

1st pic: Breaker box and outlet (lower right)

2nd pic: outlet to be replaced

3rd pic: existing outlet wiring

4th pic: welder

5th pic: welder plug

 

Outlet I bought  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N8SKDY4/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

EDIT: and a quick correction to some of my above posts, I have FOUR 240v outlets.  2 on the walls and 2 on the ceiling.  One wall outlet is upright air comp.  Other is the one I plan to replace.  Two ceiling drops are wires taped off in a junction box, unused.

 

Appreciate any input.

[Manche757]

Multiple question but will not put them out there at once. Is that panel 220 single phase and not 3phase? Add up the total amps on all the breakers as it is before you change anthing

 

Your welder plug AND the recepticle plug look to be single phase. Look at the plate on your welder. What does it state?

[BeaterComanche86]

Go with the 6 wire.

 

Edit: Its seems your oven requires 2 hots, a neutral, and a ground so you would need  6/3 and a different plug. 
But you can use that plug from amazon for your welder and run a separate 6/2.

 

Oven cord:

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/smart-choice-6-50-amp-4-prong-range-cord-black/3921073.p?skuId=3921073&ref=212&loc=1&ref=212&loc=1&ds_rl=1273104&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI-aXImO-76AIVysDICh2GbQ8WEAkYESABEgI8efD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
 

Oven plug:

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Utilitech-Black-50-Amp-Round-Range-AFCI-Industrial-Range/4064014?cm_mmc=shp-_-c-_-prd-_-rpe-_-google-_-lia-_--_-wiringdevices-_-4064014-_-0&store_code=2995&placeholder=null&gclid=EAIaIQobChMImtn0gPC76AIVAq_ICh2vvwwWEAkYDCABEgJkrvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

 

 

[schardein]

1 hour ago, Manche757 said:

Multiple question but will not put them out there at once. Is that panel 220 single phase and not 3phase? Add up the total amps on all the breakers as it is before you change anthing

 

Your welder plug AND the recepticle plug look to be single phase. Look at the plate on your welder. What does it state?

I don’t know how to determine single/3 phase. Does this help?

[schardein]

1 hour ago, BeaterComanche86 said:

Go with the 6 wire.

 

Edit: Its seems your oven requires 2 hots, a neutral, and a ground so you would need  6/3 and a different plug. 
But you can use that plug from amazon for your welder and run a separate 6/2.

 

Oven cord:

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/smart-choice-6-50-amp-4-prong-range-cord-black/3921073.p?skuId=3921073&ref=212&loc=1&ref=212&loc=1&ds_rl=1273104&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI-aXImO-76AIVysDICh2GbQ8WEAkYESABEgI8efD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
 

Oven plug:

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Utilitech-Black-50-Amp-Round-Range-AFCI-Industrial-Range/4064014?cm_mmc=shp-_-c-_-prd-_-rpe-_-google-_-lia-_--_-wiringdevices-_-4064014-_-0&store_code=2995&placeholder=null&gclid=EAIaIQobChMImtn0gPC76AIVAq_ICh2vvwwWEAkYDCABEgJkrvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

 

 

I have that oven cord (4 prong) it was from the sellers new stove but they gave it to me with the old stove. 

[Jeep Driver]

Go get you 20 feet of 8/2

 

Drill a 1" hole just below the bottom of the service panel. 

 

Fish wire and clamp up into the panel. 

 

Attach wire to breaker. 

 

Attach plug at other end. 

 

Hang on hose hanger. 

 

Plug in whatever you want, anywhere you want within say 17' of the service panel, would cover the average garage. 

 

Ain't rocket surgery, just electricity. 

 

 

 

[JustEmptyEveryPocket]

34 minutes ago, Jeep Driver said:

Plug in whatever you want, anywhere you want within say 17' of the service panel, would cover the average garage. 

This is a good idea. I would go one step further and recommend stranded cable so it acts like a regular power cord. Maybe welder cable if you can find some cheap?

[derf]

There's basically zero chance the house would have 3 phase power.  That's something you usually only find in industrial areas.

[schardein]

11 hours ago, Jeep Driver said:

Go get you 20 feet of 8/2

 

Drill a 1" hole just below the bottom of the service panel. 

 

Fish wire and clamp up into the panel. 

 

Attach wire to breaker. 

 

Attach plug at other end. 

 

Hang on hose hanger. 

 

Plug in whatever you want, anywhere you want within say 17' of the service panel, would cover the average garage. 

 

Ain't rocket surgery, just electricity. 

 

 

 

Hm, I like this idea.  Going through my "stuff" yesterday, I have a ~12' length of 6/3 with that plug on one end, and the matching male plug on the other end.  So, sort of a homemade extension cord.  Remove the male end and wire to a breaker in the box.  

 

My shop is 24x60, so nowhere close to full coverage, but gives some options.  The breaker box is right next to a pallet rack shelf, so this would get me to the other side of it.

 

It is a stiff cord.  What size welding cable would work, same size?  I have some 1 and 1/0 on hand, more flexible but way overkill.

 

Still doesn't help get the oven wired in?

 

My house wiring education is high school shop class. Much more comfortable with DC (car) wiring, had more training.

[Manche757]

Google indicates that I am 1,085 miles from Success, MO. I only know what is in the workshop of our fine CC member, Mr. Greg Schardein by asking questions. Although if you had your electric panel in your shower, chances are you would never be electrocuted. I see electrical codes as minimums, not something to cheat or beat. If a homeowner takes plumbing short cuts, his house might get flooded. Electrical shortcuts can lead to fires and death;

 fortunately that does not happen often. I have known of high voltage electrocution of a man with two two young sons and wfe. Known someone that had their electrical panel blown out of their wall by a lightening strike to a poorly grounded panel. I have seen an overloaded power cable burst in flames. I have seen connections to the hot side of a breaker by a home owner that did not know better.

 

GS stated his workshop feeds from a power pole and the shop was used commercially by a prior owner. Usually homes have two phase electric service and three phase service is not allowed. Large homes being built here now have two 200amp two phase panels. Most commercial and industrial locations have 3 phase service even if it does not seem necessary.

 

The 100 amp electrical panel in his shop looks to be in good condition. His comments support that. It is a little suprising that a 200 amp panel was not installed originally if it is relatively new. The difference in original cost would have been minor. If three phase, there would be a third bus bar carrying 110 volts.