Jump to content
Me&my86MJ

Winch popping BUSS fuses and Starter relay

Recommended Posts

I went to respool my winch in and at first it was working fine, then I heard click and no more spooling in, I figured my battery is/was weak and needed a bit of time to recharge. After a little bit of my truck running I tried spooling in and just a click no winch movement.

  I turn my jeep off and now it wouldn't restart. After some inspection I find BUSS(30amp) fuse from battery to starter relay has popped(yellow wire from battery to relay in picture). I only had 20amp BUSS fuses on hand, so I tried them and they worked enough to start and run jeep but as soon as I tried the winch I popped the fuse.

  So i replaced fuse and tried to start jeep and it starts up and then dies. So I grab so 30amp BUSS fuses and my jeep starts and I am able to run winch.... Temporarily as I neared the last 2 or 3 meters of winch rope, winch starts clicking and not spooling in, so I figured I popped Buss fuse so I turn jeep off and sure enough fuse is popped. I replace it and now jeep will not start, turn over, click, or prime fuel pump....

 Anyone else have this issue, does my starter relay need replaced now, what has everyone else done to not have this problem?

 

20180524_190234.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Where are you pulling power from for the winch? In my mind it shouldn't really have anything to do with the starter relay, but you've only got one set of cables leaving your battery?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, gogmorgo said:

Where are you pulling power from for the winch? In my mind it shouldn't really have anything to do with the starter relay, but you've only got one set of cables leaving your battery?

Yep. 

 

 

And this with no load on the winch.

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry last picture doesn't even have winch hooked up here is picture with it hooked up. I mainly posted picture to show yellow BUSS fuse wire from battery to starter relay that keeps popping. 

20180603_134703.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Now I see...............wow! Who wired that?

 

 

You should have a 4g cable from the pos battery post to the starter relay, no fuse. 

 

You are running that entire truck off a single 12g wire........wow. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I still don't really see why the winch would pop the fuse, unless it's adding load because the controller is wired off the truck? That would sorta explain why the winch quits working. It still shouldn't have anything to do with the starter relay.

Or I guess if the alt's kicking up a bit under load from the winch and feeding it back into the battery, maybe. But the battery shouldn't be loosing so much charge that the winch instantly cuts out when the fuse blows, unless the battery's discharged enough the winch is just running straight off the alternator through that tiny wire. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, gogmorgo said:

I still don't really see why the winch would pop the fuse, unless it's adding load because the controller is wired off the truck? That would sorta explain why the winch quits working. It still shouldn't have anything to do with the starter relay.

Me either and controllers are standard 3 prong wired in/out function only and it has a non wired remote with in/out and on/off buttons but nothing extra is wired or nothing electrical was even running when this happened. A side note I have had that yellow BUSS fuse wire for a few months and never had any issues, it is suppose to replace the fused jumper wire that was originally there.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Winch load (however small) is dropping the battery voltage, and that insanely undersized wire/fuse setup to the ignition relay lets go with the current increase.  Or it's the alternator that's popping it when the winch pulls the battery down.  I don't know which, it doesn't matter, that wire is way too small.  Mine is either 6 or 4 awg and there's an 80 amp or so fuse on it, I'd have to check to be sure, but it's whatever I calculated to be suitable, and the alternator is directly hooked to the battery.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The green 'wires' that are coming off the starter relay are your fused links.......those are your fuses. 

 

Those links supply power to the entire truck- Ign system, headlights, gauges, all other lights, fuel pump, cig lighter, blower motor............whatever else that is powered. 

So, all that is being run through that one small fused yellow wire, simply put, it's wrong. 

 

And I don't see where your alt is tied to the battery? Nor do I see where your neg cable is grounded?

 

Your starter wire is too long too, I see it looped. 

 

 

Whatever your problem, whatever the cause, you need to start over again. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Jeep Driver said:

The green 'wires' that are coming off the starter relay are your fused links.......those are your fuses. 

 

Those links supply power to the entire truck- Ign system, headlights, gauges, all other lights, fuel pump, cig lighter, blower motor............whatever else that is powered. 

So, all that is being run through that one small fused yellow wire, simply put, it's wrong. 

 

And I don't see where your alt is tied to the battery? Nor do I see where your neg cable is grounded?

 

Your starter wire is too long too, I see it looped. 

 

 

Whatever your problem, whatever the cause, you need to start over again. 

Look I didn't go rewiring the underhood or swapping wires for fun. Actually according to wiring diagram for my 1986 2.5l comanche  all wires look to be going to and from where they belong. Sorry you don't like the way it looks, but that is the way jeep made them, 100% pure perfect quality. 

  

Screenshot_20181230-100149_Google.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OP, the yellow lead needs to be fatter, maybe use a piece off the excess wire by the rad? There's always room for improvement with Jeep's 100% pure perfect quality...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My electrical book shows a 8 AWG red cable from the battery to the stater relay with no fuse. That yellow wire was not put there by Jeep.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, MJCARENA said:

My electrical book shows a 8 AWG red cable from the battery to the stater relay with no fuse. That yellow wire was not put there by Jeep.

Yes you are correct, I was just meaning the routing of the wires themselves. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OK, I understand. Jeep did do some crazy wiring jobs. It's scary looking under the dash next to the fuse panel.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So would it cause problems if I were to leave yellow fused wire and pull heavier gauge wire both running to starter relay?

 I believe that the purpose of yellow fused wire is to protect starter relay and it did do so, I did pop 4 or 5 BUSS fuses first before popping my starter relay.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/29/2018 at 11:35 PM, Me&my86MJ said:

it is suppose to replace the fused jumper wire that was originally there.

Not true, circuit is unprotected.

 

Technically speaking, your yellow fused wire is undersized (wire gauge) and fuse protected. Both your wiring schematic and the 88 electrical manual show no fuse or fusible link between the battery positive terminal and the starter relay stud. Your schematic shows no wire gauge size, the 88 electrical manual calls for 8 gauge (AWG) wire. Adding this 8 gauge (AWG) wire would render your yellow fused wire useless. Yes this is consider to be a unprotected circuit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You probably have a 60 amp alternator on your jeep. If your battery is low or your winch is loading down your battery (a winch can draw a couple hundred amps under load) that alternator is going to put out quite a bit of current to keep your battery charged, a lot more then that yellow wire can handle. If you did not have the fuse in there, the wire itself would probably just burn up, acting like a fuse link. Look up amp rating for the size wire the yellow one is. We are trying to help you and you seem to be resisting for some reason.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/30/2018 at 10:14 AM, Me&my86MJ said:

Look I didn't go rewiring the underhood or swapping wires for fun. Actually according to wiring diagram for my 1986 2.5l comanche  all wires look to be going to and from where they belong. Sorry you don't like the way it looks, but that is the way jeep made them, 100% pure perfect quality.

 

The way AMC did it is garbage (HOrnbroad will hear this and perk up to come say "I told you so!!!!!!!!!!!!!"), but what you've got going on isn't factory and is even worse.

 

The alternator should be hooked directly to the battery, as this helps to even out the ripple output from the alternator (noise) and the battery will protect the rest of the system by absorbing voltage/current spikes.  They didn't do this as it would save money.  Actually the reason they wired everything the way they did was to save money.  And it's a terrible setup with random fusible links and everything ganged off the starter/ignition relay.

 

Anyways, at the very least you need to replace that wire and fuse from your battery to the starter relay.  8ga minimum, and if you must use a fuse go big with a 100A maxi-fuse, the fuse isn't going to protect the relay (it's really not what fuses do), rather it will protect the vehicle from a fire if there's a dead short (maybe).  There's little point having a fuse there, IMHO.

 

And the advice to cut the large cables to length is good advice, a few feet of unneeded wire does increase the resistance by enough to be noticeable, often only a few feet is the difference between needing to go up another size or not.  The factory used terribly undersized battery cables, because again, it saved money.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So I tried fatter wire in place of yellow wire..... my truck now wants to turn over all by itself just by hooking negative battery cable up...

20190103_191018.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, DirtyComanche said:

Make sure you're not shorting to any of the other connectors on the ignition relay.

You sir are correct, thank you, I couldn't really see where or what was touching until I took this picture.

 Even in the picture it is hard and to see they are touching and it barely looks like they are touching at all but that doesn't matter because it is enough to cause problems. So I flipped red wire and presto, it starts when I turn key and no longer in own.

 I also was able to respool the rest of my winch rope in(only 10 feet or so), now time to unspool it all the way and run it all the way in with light load.

20190103_191053.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some of the posters who are helping you with your original question are ALSO offering suggestions on how to IMPROVE the reliability and safety of your MJ's electrical system in general.

 

The early XJ/MJ vehicles had truly HORRIBLE electrical systems with a poor design that resulted in LOTS of problems, and the problems got worse as the vehicle got older.

 

In addition, our older MJ's have often been "repaired" by former owners in often equally poor methods.  Yours looks like it falls into this group.

 

What I am trying to say here is to take the advice these other posters have given, and save yourself some grief and frustration later on down the road.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×