Front end 87' sportruck

[Kyleinreallife]

So I picked up a stock base model want to upgrade to Dana 44's. I will be doing the work but don't know what I can pull them off of as far as compatibility.

 

Suggestions and advice appreciated. Thanks!

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jeeppapa]

If you do a search on this forum you should be able to find some great info on that subject. Frequently found under the older 4x4 mj and xj. Found 1 under an 86xj wagoneer with a tow package in a junkyard 2 weeks ago. Car was in very good shape for its age. It was to late in day to do anything about. Got some good parts off it. Went back the next week and it was crushed and so was I. CA is like that they crush them and they are drying up around here. Make frequent trips to the junkyards or look for a downer. You can still get what you need just getting harder to find. I looked for 2 yrs for an out of the ordinary lite wood grain door trim and I found it on that xj. Best of luck to you.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[dasbulliwagen]

For complete bolt in, youd want an original MJ rear 44, and then find a TJ Wrangler front 44 from a TJ Rubicon. Otherwise youll be doing some welding and fab to make other stuff work. Which isnt a big deal for some, but I don't know your situation.  

[MeanLemons]

I got my front/rear Dana 44 out of a 1988 grand wagoneer. It's 6 lug so expect to buy 6 lug wheels if u go down that route. Nearly correct width; the rear axle probably would need spacers depending on the offset of the wheels u plan to run. The perches will need to be relocated.

 

The front will need coil buckets, LCAs, UCAs and other stuff welded on.

[Kyleinreallife]

For complete bolt in, youd want an original MJ rear 44, and then find a TJ Wrangler front 44 from a TJ Rubicon. Otherwise youll be doing some welding and fab to make other stuff work. Which isnt a big deal for some, but I don't know your situation.

Well I am a welder/fabricator so that won't be an issue. I'm just a little short on knowledge as far as compatibility goes. I guess I'm going for easiest to find. Also is there a breakdown somewhere here of the (N)J classification system? I'm lost outside of the xjs and mjs

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[dasbulliwagen]

There is a breakdown somewhere here about that with Model names and years. Ill look real quick, but someone else may be quicker to the draw and post it if they know where it is.

[dasbulliwagen]

I stole this from this thread

http://comancheclub.com/topic/12163-acronyms/

 

 

This is a basic list without going in to all the sub-catagories of the CJ & FSJ's...

CJ - 1941 - 1986
DJ - 1954 - 1982 ??years
SJ - 1963 - 1986 ??years
FJ - 1961 - 1965
MJ - 1986 - 1992 (Comanche)
XJ - 1984 - 2001 (Cherokee)
YJ - 1987 - 1995 (Wrangler)
TJ - 1997 - 2006 (Wrangler)
JK - 2007 - present (Wrangler)
ZJ - 1993 - 1998 (Grand Cherokee)
WJ - 1999 - 2004 (Grand Cherokee)
WK - 2005 - present (Grand Cherokee)
KJ - 2002 - 2007 (Liberty)
KK - 2008 - present (Liberty)
MK - 2007 - present (Compass / Patriot)
XK - 2006 - present (Comander)

[Gene]

http://comancheclub.com/topic/12163-acronyms/

 

This perhaps? About halfway down

 

Gene

[Crash]

For the money, I would definitely consider 60's, 60/14b, or something similar. Especially since you can fab.

Typically the amount of money it takes to properly build 44's (exception being stock xj/mj/tj),

You start with much stronger axles using 60's etc.

[DirtyComanche]

For the money, I would definitely consider 60's, 60/14b, or something similar. Especially since you can fab.

Typically the amount of money it takes to properly build 44's (exception being stock xj/mj/tj),

You start with much stronger axles using 60's etc.

 

1-tons have extra complications.  You'd want to be running at least 37" tires for clearance.  I partially wish I had ordered 40s rather than 37s with my 1-ton XJ build, just for clearance.  Plus they're heavy axles, so you will need to do some reinforcements on the chassis/suspension, spend more money on shocks, steering, etc.  Weight in general is your enemy.  Part of the reason the XJ/MJ generally wheeled circles around everything else in their day was because they were lighter to start with, especially given that they were longer than many of the comparable Jeeps; it makes a huge difference performance wise being 4000lbs with 35" tires vs 5000lbs with 35" tires.

 

But yes, building a D44 vs a 60...  60 almost every day, just as long as you've got the tires to justify it.

 

I already told him I think JK axles might be a good option.  Would they be?  I dunno.  He hasn't said what size tires he wants, or if/how he plans to wheel it.

[DirtyComanche]

I got my front/rear Dana 44 out of a 1988 grand wagoneer. It's 6 lug so expect to buy 6 lug wheels if u go down that route. Nearly correct width; the rear axle probably would need spacers depending on the offset of the wheels u plan to run. The perches will need to be relocated.

 

The front will need coil buckets, LCAs, UCAs and other stuff welded on.

 

IMHO they're too narrow for any tire size that justifies using them, you're probably running 15x8 wheels with 3" BS?  It's not ideal for scrub radius, you're better off with a 64-66" wide axle and running more backspacing to get the scrub bang on.  The rear especially is too narrow given how the MJ frame is so wide.  Also, personally I hate low pinion front axles, and feel that while the LP D44 is going to be stronger than the stock D30 in the R&P department, the other downsides don't really make it worth it.  Well, I hate low pinion rear axles too, but I don't exactly have the money or inclination to do much about that.

 

On my XJ I went full width, then used stock Dodge truck wheels, which are a 17x9 with 6" BS IIRC (something like that), bought Yukon Hardcore Hubs to get 35 spline outers and keep the hubs in closer, and the scrub radius is perfect.  Even without the hydro-assist it was easy to steer it, and there's an autolocker in the front.  It literally couldn't be built any narrower and preserve steering anyways, and that's with highly modified inner fenders/extreme cutting on the outer fenders.

[MeanLemons]

I ll take a LP44 over a HP30 any day

 

Bigger R&P, bigger brakes, bigger tubes, stronger ball joints, hubs instead of unit bearings, etc. yeah.

 

The front 44 is perfect width. Rear 44 is slightly narrow.

[DirtyComanche]

I ll take a LP44 over a HP30 any day

 

Bigger R&P, bigger brakes, bigger tubes, stronger ball joints, hubs instead of unit bearings, etc. yeah.

 

The front 44 is perfect width. Rear 44 is slightly narrow.

 

The ball joints are very comparable.  And the hubs netted you 19 spline outer shafts, unless you went with drive flanges or Yukon Hardcore Hubs.

 

I swapped a Waggy front into my first MJ.  I regretted it.  Yeah, the brakes are better, the tubes are better, and the wheel bearings will last longer...  But for what it's worth, I'd never do it again.

 

If I wanted to spend money, I'd build a Jana 54/60 hybrid.  But for the same price as a regular D44, and a fraction of the price of a Jana 54/60, I swapped in a regular HP D60.  To do that over again I'd get a Super 60 from a F-Superduty and not have to waste money on 35 spline outers and Yukon Hardcore Hubs (that are a whole other story in themselves).  Although the Super 60s are wider yet, so I might not have been as happy with that aspect.

 

All in all, a guy can do what he wants, but everything has pros and cons, and the economics often don't work out the same in reality as they appeared on first glance.

[Eagle]

I already told him I think JK axles might be a good option.  Would they be?  I dunno.  He hasn't said what size tires he wants, or if/how he plans to wheel it.

 

 

Since he can fab, they are a possibility. But ... they're wider than the TJ/XJ/MJ axles. And that brought problems, because when Jeep made them wider they didn't make the fronts stronger. When people started putting big tires on them and actually using them like Jeeps, those wider axles bent. There's an aftermarket for kits to reinforce those axles. The ones I've seen consist of tubes that fit inside the OEM tubes to beef up the wall thickness (or lack thereof), and gussets to reinforce the Cs where they mate to the axles.

 

Overall, for an MJ you're probably better off with the front axle from a TJ Rubicon.

[DirtyComanche]

 

I already told him I think JK axles might be a good option.  Would they be?  I dunno.  He hasn't said what size tires he wants, or if/how he plans to wheel it.

 

 

Since he can fab, they are a possibility. But ... they're wider than the TJ/XJ/MJ axles. And that brought problems, because when Jeep made them wider they didn't make the fronts stronger. When people started putting big tires on them and actually using them like Jeeps, those wider axles bent. There's an aftermarket for kits to reinforce those axles. The ones I've seen consist of tubes that fit inside the OEM tubes to beef up the wall thickness (or lack thereof), and gussets to reinforce the Cs where they mate to the axles.

 

Overall, for an MJ you're probably better off with the front axle from a TJ Rubicon.

 

 

I had mentioned the need for the sleeves and a truss or gussets.  The reality is that the same problem exists with the XJ/MJ axle to only a slightly lesser degree, but most guys blow them up before encountering it because of the other areas of weakness.  The other thing is that since the JK axles are wider, you can run wheels with more backspacing, or without spacers/adapters (where I'm at on my MJ), thus bringing the track width back in and keeping the leverage on the tubes basically the same as the original D30 would have seen.  And since you are running higher backspacing wheels/no spacers, you preserve the scrub radius and keep the wheel bearings happier.

 

The TJ Rubicon axle is low pinion.  I don't think it has good bang for the buck, as it's just an old style D30 with an old style LP D44 center section.  Pretty much the worst of both worlds, you get some upgrade in R&P/carrier strength, but increased driveshaft angles/yoke vulnerability, and all the other weak parts that his D30 already has.  It's got weird thick gears with odd sized bolts too, IIRC, not that it really matters.  It is basically a direct bolt in though, which unfortunately also makes it expensive.

[Kyleinreallife]

 

For the money, I would definitely consider 60's, 60/14b, or something similar. Especially since you can fab.

Typically the amount of money it takes to properly build 44's (exception being stock xj/mj/tj),

You start with much stronger axles using 60's etc.

1-tons have extra complications. You'd want to be running at least 37" tires for clearance. I partially wish I had ordered 40s rather than 37s with my 1-ton XJ build, just for clearance. Plus they're heavy axles, so you will need to do some reinforcements on the chassis/suspension, spend more money on shocks, steering, etc. Weight in general is your enemy. Part of the reason the XJ/MJ generally wheeled circles around everything else in their day was because they were lighter to start with, especially given that they were longer than many of the comparable Jeeps; it makes a huge difference performance wise being 4000lbs with 35" tires vs 5000lbs with 35" tires.

 

But yes, building a D44 vs a 60... 60 almost every day, just as long as you've got the tires to justify it.

 

I already told him I think JK axles might be a good option. Would they be? I dunno. He hasn't said what size tires he wants, or if/how he plans to wheel it.

I don't want to go tooooo big on the tires, still needs to be a daily. I was thinking 33's I'm just looking to make a daily that I can go have some fun on the weekends if that helps...

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[DirtyComanche]

 

 

For the money, I would definitely consider 60's, 60/14b, or something similar. Especially since you can fab.

Typically the amount of money it takes to properly build 44's (exception being stock xj/mj/tj),

You start with much stronger axles using 60's etc.

1-tons have extra complications. You'd want to be running at least 37" tires for clearance. I partially wish I had ordered 40s rather than 37s with my 1-ton XJ build, just for clearance. Plus they're heavy axles, so you will need to do some reinforcements on the chassis/suspension, spend more money on shocks, steering, etc. Weight in general is your enemy. Part of the reason the XJ/MJ generally wheeled circles around everything else in their day was because they were lighter to start with, especially given that they were longer than many of the comparable Jeeps; it makes a huge difference performance wise being 4000lbs with 35" tires vs 5000lbs with 35" tires.

 

But yes, building a D44 vs a 60... 60 almost every day, just as long as you've got the tires to justify it.

 

I already told him I think JK axles might be a good option. Would they be? I dunno. He hasn't said what size tires he wants, or if/how he plans to wheel it.

I don't want to go tooooo big on the tires, still needs to be a daily. I was thinking 33's I'm just looking to make a daily that I can go have some fun on the weekends if that helps...

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

 

Throw some quality parts in your D30, then find a 29 spline Chrysler 8.25, XJ/MJ D44, or Explorer 8.8 for the rear.  You won't have any problems unless you drive like Tim Cameron, and the rear axle swaps are all documented, and you don't have to change the front even...

 

I consider 33s to be within the acceptable range of tire sizes for a HP D30, and people accuse me of being overkill about things.

 

By quality parts for the D30 I recommend some new axleshafts and u-joints, as your axle probably has the terrible 260x joints in it, and if you regear it buy decent quality gears.  Also if you get a locker get a full case locker or a Detroit Truetrac limited slip; a lunchbox locker is kinda asking for trouble IMHO, although plenty of guys have had great success with them and I even run one...

[Crash]

 

For the money, I would definitely consider 60's, 60/14b, or something similar. Especially since you can fab.

Typically the amount of money it takes to properly build 44's (exception being stock xj/mj/tj),

You start with much stronger axles using 60's etc.

1-tons have extra complications. You'd want to be running at least 37" tires for clearance. I partially wish I had ordered 40s rather than 37s with my 1-ton XJ build, just for clearance. Plus they're heavy axles, so you will need to do some reinforcements on the chassis/suspension, spend more money on shocks, steering, etc. Weight in general is your enemy. Part of the reason the XJ/MJ generally wheeled circles around everything else in their day was because they were lighter to start with, especially given that they were longer than many of the comparable Jeeps; it makes a huge difference performance wise being 4000lbs with 35" tires vs 5000lbs with 35" tires.

 

But yes, building a D44 vs a 60... 60 almost every day, just as long as you've got the tires to justify it.

 

I already told him I think JK axles might be a good option. Would they be? I dunno. He hasn't said what size tires he wants, or if/how he plans to wheel it.

Did you shave the axles for more clearance? Done properly you can have just as much clearance as a 44.

David Bricker on Naxja has a narrowed D60 that has been shaved and has as much if not slightly more clearance than the original D44.

I do understand the weight to a point. But aside from that the axles are stronger and you could drive into/over rocks if you choose to do so.

 

I'm picking up a D60 FF rear for cheap, probably what I will run in my MJ eventually when I find another full width front to match.