DirtyComanche Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 My 88 is a massive PITA to get into gear if you're not moving and the engine is running. It's not a huge deal because I just downshift to first before I come to a stop, but if I leave the truck idling out of gear it is insane to try to get it into gear, pretty much any gear, even stopping to put it into reverse can be quite a frustration. Sometimes trying to jam it into reverse will produce grinding, even if not moving. Not running you can just smack it into whatever gear you want, not as easily as say my JK is, but I don't feel it's at all off. It also doesn't always shift awesome. But if I'm trying I can float the gears without the clutch. Initially I thought it was because it probably had the wrong oil in it and it was cold out, but I realized the oil type is correct. From there I assumed synchros, or another internal problem along those lines... But I'm thinking that doesn't totally make sense since I can just pop it in gear not running. So I'm thinking I should try bleeding the clutch out before I make plans to get my spare AX-15? Where should full clutch disengagement be in the pedal travel? I recall my last MJ was with the pedal damn near on the floor, and that's just how it was, this one is similar (although maybe it is not completely disengaging?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyComanche Posted March 20, 2017 Author Share Posted March 20, 2017 I think I answered my own question. Bled it and there might have been a tiny amount of air in it. Very slight difference in pedal feel, or it is all in me head. :dunce: I think the synchros are pretty shot, or something along those lines. I could possibly try a different/better oil (Amsoil MTG?) and see if that helps at all, otherwise it's live with it or put a plan in place to get my spare tranny and swap it in. Conveniently I don't recall if my spare is actually in amazing shape or not, so might be wasting my time there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpnjim Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 Def sounds like your clutch is not fully disengaging I don't have an AX15, I know my 3550 and my old BA 10-5's all grabbed/released a couple inches above the floor like they should. IIRC, the BA's had a bleeder screw for the hydro clutch, I think the 3550 doesn't have a bleeder, but I don't recall any problem bleeding it/getting the pedal height set. I'd start by trying to bleed the line, then see if there's another reason it's not fully releasing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpnjim Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 If you start it in gear with the clutch pedal to the floor does it try to move the truck forward? It really sounds like the clutch is hanging up. Was it like this when you first swapped the AX15 in? Linkage/hydrolic issues are usually the problem, but other things can make the clutch disc hang up and 'stick' instead of cleanly disconnecting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyComanche Posted March 20, 2017 Author Share Posted March 20, 2017 I think it's fully releasing and it's just in my head. That said, talk about an awkward thing to try to bleed. I could put the vacuum pump on it and try I guess? Driving it I can't float into second or first. 3rd, 4th, 5th, no big deal, well no worse than how it normally goes when I do that (I normally use the clutch to shift, was not taught how to drive properly). The feeling of disengagement (if that is actual disengagement or not, the point where it no longer has enough bite to load the engine up) is higher up in the travel than I thought, maybe half way or a little past that. Or it changed after I bled it. I think part of the problem is I'm comparing apples to bananas because my plowtruck and JK are both very different than this thing, and they're the only manual transmission vehicles I have around here. I just spent 5 minutes in the driveway messing with it and it went into first and second basically fine every time, no massive forcing and feeling of it just not being willing to go... But it's warmer out today too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyComanche Posted March 20, 2017 Author Share Posted March 20, 2017 I didn't do the tranny swap on this. I bought it with the trans and tcase in it (the tcase was barely installed, I pulled it back out to do the SYE, but not a lot of confidence in the work there...) but the swap had not been completed and the truck was FWD with a bag taped over the slip yoke. All prior work has been considered to be suspect, but I didn't go as far as pulling the trans off to make sure things had been installed correctly, rather I just hit the bellhousing bolts with a wrench and gave the rest of the install a visual. If I start it in gear/clutch in, the starter isn't loaded up any more than usual or trying to pull the truck. The clutch/throwout doesn't make any bad noises or anything, it's all pretty much as per usual. I don't know where this AX-15 was sourced from, other than the tcase (presumably paired with it) was a 92, and it's internal slave 23 spline. It may well have 8 million miles on it like the D30/D44 that came with the truck (which came out of an 87 XJ). And it probably had the wrong oil in it most of its life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desbennett004 Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 My AX15 in my 99 behaves similar. I changed the master slave assembly, didn't make a difference. Sent from my SM-N900W8 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tex06 Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 If your synchros are shot, you can still shift into gear easily when the truck is not running. Just fyi. I think the clutch is suspect. Not fully disengaging, could be a reused flywheel, worn clutch, or slave/ master issues. Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omega_rugal Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 grinding means the clutch is not disengaging... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
64 Cheyenne Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 Sometimes trying to jam it into reverse will produce grinding, even if not moving. I wouldn't do this ever, good way to bend a shift rail, finish the tranny off for good, unless you good for a rebuild or replacement. From what I've read, it doesn't seem you've figured the problem out yet, so I would take it easy on the tranny, you don't want to compound the problem by causing damage to an otherwise possibly good tranny. Me, I pretty much always shift into first, (with correct clutch disengagement), (or any other forward gear) before I go to reverse, because the forward gears have synchros and reverse does not, in doing so, it stops the trannys rotation and reverse drops right in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minuit Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 Me, I pretty much always shift into first, (with correct clutch disengagement), (or any other forward gear) before I go to reverse, because the forward gears have synchros and reverse does not, in doing so, it stops the trannys rotation and reverse drops right in. This is how I do it in the 89. If you go straight to reverse there's about a 50/50 chance of it grinding. Going to first first makes it slide in like it's supposed to. It was my understanding that this is normal for the AX15, but the other stuff he's describing (very hard to put it in gear when idling in neutral) definitely isn't. Sounds to me like a clutch issue still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyComanche Posted March 21, 2017 Author Share Posted March 21, 2017 If your synchros are shot, you can still shift into gear easily when the truck is not running. Just fyi. I think the clutch is suspect. Not fully disengaging, could be a reused flywheel, worn clutch, or slave/ master issues. Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk Yeah, driving it today and it was way worse than yesterday. It's odd, but it's intermittent, and being cold (much colder this morning than yesterday) seems to make it worse. Not that it makes any sense to me how temperature would affect clutch disengagement. Either way, it is a clutch disengagement issue. I had it stopped and couldn't get it into gear, but when you bump the shifter to try to get it into gear you could feel the truck lurch a bit (synchros trying to drive the gear for engagement, I guess?). I actually had to shut it off a couple times to put it into gear, but I was intentionally pulling it out of gear at stoplights. I think you're in the right track about reused flywheel or worn clutch... I think the person who installed the tranny reused the worn/previously enjoyed Renix flywheel, and probably just threw the used AX-15 clutch at it... Everything else was more or less done wrong, so why not do that too? I'm going to get a pressurized bleeder and try that before I pull the tranny off, but I think I'll just order a clutch kit, flywheel, and probably a slave cylinder either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyComanche Posted March 21, 2017 Author Share Posted March 21, 2017 Order a clutch, flywheel, and slave for a 90? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tex06 Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 Maybe someone else can chime in but I'd do the master/slave combo from a 94+, clutch from the same year, and a '90 flywheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyComanche Posted March 21, 2017 Author Share Posted March 21, 2017 Maybe someone else can chime in but I'd do the master/slave combo from a 94+, clutch from the same year, and a '90 flywheel. I thought you needed a different bellhousing to run the external slave? I'll admit I have no idea because it never occurred to me that you might be able to swap it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minuit Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 Yeah, the bellhousings are different and you'll need a few other parts. I think at least the front bearing retainer is different. But it can be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyComanche Posted March 21, 2017 Author Share Posted March 21, 2017 So I just bled the crap out of it with a somewhat better setup. I don't think there was any air in it, but it's hard to tell. Of course it was fine on the test drive, just like when I tried this yesterday. We will see tomorrow morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyComanche Posted March 23, 2017 Author Share Posted March 23, 2017 It worked fine this morning. All the way to the gas station, and then work, and when I moved it into the back lot (3 starts/stops). But I parked crooked. Fired it up to wiggle straight (4th start of the morning) and can't get it into 1st, grinds in reverse. I think I will swap the master, bleed again, and failing that I will buy a clutch kit, flywheel and slave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjeff87 Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 check the pilot bearing too given the unsettling history of it all, I'd probably just replace it anyway while you're in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyComanche Posted March 23, 2017 Author Share Posted March 23, 2017 check the pilot bearing too given the unsettling history of it all, I'd probably just replace it anyway while you're in there. Yeah, might as well order one too. That's a good point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyComanche Posted March 23, 2017 Author Share Posted March 23, 2017 On that note, if I order a clutch I will probably go with this Luk: http://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=4694283&cc=1179996&jsn=500and the matching Luk Flywheel http://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=4697202&cc=1179996&jsn=540 It appears to me that it comes with a new pilot bearing, but I can't find anywhere on the interweb that specifically says it does. Looks like it's right there in the picture though. Anyone know for sure? I'm going to just order the master and line for now. They will be there about the time I get back from work. If that doesn't work (which it probably won't, it doesn't seem like the issue) I will proceed to ordering the entire clutch, I won't likely have time to do it right away anyways. Interestingly enough, the master cylinder and line that is installed looks different from any of the ones listed/pictured on Rockauto. :dunno: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desbennett004 Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 On that note, if I order a clutch I will probably go with this Luk: http://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=4694283&cc=1179996&jsn=500and the matching Luk Flywheel http://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=4697202&cc=1179996&jsn=540 It appears to me that it comes with a new pilot bearing, but I can't find anywhere on the interweb that specifically says it does. Looks like it's right there in the picture though. Anyone know for sure? I'm going to just order the master and line for now. They will be there about the time I get back from work. If that doesn't work (which it probably won't, it doesn't seem like the issue) I will proceed to ordering the entire clutch, I won't likely have time to do it right away anyways. Interestingly enough, the master cylinder and line that is installed looks different from any of the ones listed/pictured on Rockauto. :dunno: Any clutch kit I have bought has the pilot bearing with it. Sent from my SM-N900W8 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1987Comanche Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 I'm having a very similar problem with Georgia now. I swapped in a junkyard, external slave, 4WD AX-15 about 25K miles ago and everything worked fine until about 2 months ago. Now she's a real bear to put in 1st from a dead stop at hot idle. When I did the swap I used a LUK clutch kit and had the flywheel surface cleaned up at the machine shop. I changed the fluid (synthetic 10W-30 with Lucas) and it looked good. Also changed the clutch slave and it didn't make much of a difference. While hard to put in gear I don't hear any grinding when she does shift into 1st. If the truck is off shifting isn't an issue. I still need to find a level parking lot to see if she creeps forward but I'm wondering if I have a bent shift fork. I know there are a few trains of thought on cutting a 4.0 flywheel but I had no issues for about 2.5 years so I don't think that's it. The donor XJ had 184K miles and a broken NP231 (chain hanging out the bottom) so the AX-15 now has about 210K miles on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyComanche Posted April 23, 2017 Author Share Posted April 23, 2017 Well, I ordered that Luk clutch kit and flywheel. I will see what's going on when I pull the old one out... I went snow wheeling and the clutch wound up slipping in at least one instance, when I got back the disengagement issue was worse and the clutch was making noise. The more I read it looks like there's about a 100% failure rate with machined flywheels, however some of them take longer to show up than others. I think snow wheeling (loading it heavy constantly) probably accelerated the problem on mine, as it most likely was only a couple thousand kilometers since the clutch was changed. That said, I still don't know what parts the PO used or what condition they were in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1987Comanche Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 Definitely keep us posted as to what you find and what happens after installing the new clutch & flywheel. I haven't torn into mine yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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