neohic Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 By now it's no secret that I'm moving west to Colorado. The problem I'm looking at right now is what to do with my '88 Eliminator's emissions components. The truck mechanically really isn't anything special outside of being a mild stroker running on RENIX. The truck has never had a catalytic converter as long as I've owned it and, being that I currently in the cold state of MN where anything goes, I never put one in when I did the exhaust years ago when I was rebuilding the truck. The EGR on the other hand, was removed last summer along with the solenoid and related lines. I'm going into panic mode over what I need to do with it right now. :eek: Here's my questions... What catalytic should I put under it (stock/performance/other)? How involved are the inspections in Colorado (for those who need to do them)? I've looked into how things are tested, but I don't remember seeing anything about a visual inspection of components. Obviously, the cat is an easy one that anyone can just look under and see if it's there or not, but will there be someone who knows what they're looking for in late '80s Jeep emissions technology under the hood? I mean, Jeep got rid of the EGR in '91, so how much will it really make a difference when it comes to the actual test? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marine1Texas Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 EGR will bring down your NOX level, without EGR it will fail the NOX. You could always register in a non Emission country like El Paso County! Adams, Arapahoe, Larimer, and Weld County, don't need emissions if you use address out side of the towns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellaheep Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 If you get stopped, have a good "story" as to why your vehicle is registered outside of the county your driver's license shows. Nitpicky cops, particularly Colorado State Patrol will have no problem writing that expensive ticket. It is also possible to lose your driver's license for perjury on an official document........ The test parameters the Comanche will be subject to are pretty "forgiving" but yeah, high NOX particularly up at our altitude is the most common failure reason. Generally speaking, the larger the cat, the more surface area the grid material will have and will catalyze more efficiently. With that said, I've had stock Jeep cats fail and replaced them with the smaller ones from Summit Racing (I think the one I bought was by Magnaflow) and it passed with flying colors. As I understand it, when you go in for your first e-test with your out-of-state vehicle (you'll still be displaying MN plates) that's supposed to trigger the emissions techs to pay close attention to emissions equipment. Particularly on the non OBD II cars as the connection to the computer generally rats you off about what components aren't connected/missing. My understanding is that the pre-test inspection is supposed to happen EVERY time a car comes in, but I've had several of my vehicles go through without even a mirror run under the car to look at the exhaust, and without the hood ever raised. Dunno. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 Colorado tests '88s? I thought Connecticut was pretty bass-ackwards, but at least we have a 25-year window on emissions testing. Cars and light trucks (pickups) over 25 years old are exempt from emissions. You Colorado guys need to start talking to your legislators. Years and years ago, when Connecticut first started requiring emissions testing, I did some research to see when they should stop. I spent a day at Department of Motor Vehicle headquarters, going through registration records by year. What I found was that 98+ percent of car and light truck registrations were for vehicles less then ten years old. Then factor in that the vehicles being driven the most miles annually are probably those less than three or five years old, and it's easy to see that testing just a ten year window would take care of probably 99 percent of the vehicle miles driven. Testing 25-year old vehicles is just NOT going to save the planet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marine1Texas Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 Colorado has had So many California people move to it, that they have turned the state half way to California. They banned some types of shotguns in the state too last year! You can not even collect rainwater legally! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87MJTIM Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 Testing 25-year old vehicles is just NOT going to save the planet. But it will raise $$$. Just another tax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 Testing 25-year old vehicles is just NOT going to save the planet. But it will raise $$$. Just another tax. In Connecticut it was a loser. By statute, the fee for a test is $20 -- half to the testing station and half to the state. If you fail, the first retest is free. For an OBD-2 vehicle, the test is quick -- run the mirror underneath to verify that the cat is still there, plug in the scanner to the OBD-2 port, fire it up and read the numbers. For any pre-OBD-2 vehicle they have to physically do a pressure test on the fuel cap, they have to put the vehicle on a chassis dyno and actually run the vehicle through a prescribed series of operational parameters. And then do it again -- for free -- if the first test failed. I'm sure the shops doing the testing were losing money hand over fist, and even the knuckleheads in Hartford finally realized that all they were doing was causing testing stations to leave the program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87MJTIM Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 Testing 25-year old vehicles is just NOT going to save the planet. But it will raise $$$. Just another tax. In Connecticut it was a loser. By statute, the fee for a test is $20 -- half to the testing station and half to the state. If you fail, the first retest is free. For an OBD-2 vehicle, the test is quick -- run the mirror underneath to verify that the cat is still there, plug in the scanner to the OBD-2 port, fire it up and read the numbers. For any pre-OBD-2 vehicle they have to physically do a pressure test on the fuel cap, they have to put the vehicle on a chassis dyno and actually run the vehicle through a prescribed series of operational parameters. And then do it again -- for free -- if the first test failed. I'm sure the shops doing the testing were losing money hand over fist, and even the knuckleheads in Hartford finally realized that all they were doing was causing testing stations to leave the program. MD is almost the same, sans the dyno. We have tail pipe sniff test. Just run the engine at 2500 RPM for 1 minute. If you fail, next test is free! Cost us $14 every second year. I could put "historic" tags on it (20+ years) and not have to have the testing done. However, there are restrictions on amount of driving you can do with the vehicle (not a DD). The historic tags cost more every two years than regular tags. Not much of a savings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neohic Posted March 21, 2016 Author Share Posted March 21, 2016 So... ahem... the topic at hand... The consensus is I need all my EGR stuff back under the hood and functioning, yes? What do others suggest I use for a cat? Stock? Something better out there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimoshel Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 If your living in Pueblo county there is no inspection. If in Springs get a historic license plate. Vehicle must be over 20 years old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnj92131 Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 So... ahem... the topic at hand... The consensus is I need all my EGR stuff back under the hood and functioning, yes? What do others suggest I use for a cat? Stock? Something better out there? From what I have been reading lately, the factory cat is best for long life. After market cats seem to be "lighter" in the expensive materials required to make the cat function correctly for a long life. Thus partially explaining their lower price. Remember, Jeep had to meet emissions requirements for 100,000 miles. But, how much longer do we really expect to be driving our trucks with 250 or 300,000 miles on them? My advice? Get a cat that is CARB approved. It should work fine and nobody can say you are trying to evade the emissions requirements. And no state can legally reject CARB approved emission parts. California is the only state that has the legal right to set it's own auto emission standards. Other states can adopt the California standards, but can not modify them in any way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikekaz1 Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 MA is pretty relaxed, $35 once a year, safety and emissions check BUT +16 years old theres no emissions testing. emissions is obd2 plug and play and was a tail pipe probe previously. safety is as involved as checking all the lights work, the brakes work, headlights work and a ball joint check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ride172 Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 The egr doesn't need to be functioning. They might not even notice its not there. I judt had to go test my 01 xj. They didn't even pop the hood. What I would do is put on a cat. Make sure the numbers on it are on the bottom so they can see them if they use the mirror. Don't worry about the egr. My mj passes without one being hooked up. If they fail you the retest is free. So then you could put an egr on if you had to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neohic Posted March 25, 2016 Author Share Posted March 25, 2016 I'm actually lined up to get parts this weekend from a local guy. Food for thought though, I suppose. I'm sure they'll end up on the truck just to be sure. That thought of rolling in to get tested with MN plates is stuck in my head that they'll be a bit more than thorough. At this point, it's kind of exciting in my head. As much of a hassle it is, it's one more thing on my list to do before we move... which is really what it's all about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marine1Texas Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 A catalytic converter WILL NOT by itself reduce HIGH NOx. The EGR needs to be working for your NOX levels to be lowered in pre 1991 4.0's. The EGR is for cooling down the combustion chamber temperature. As the combustion chamber temperature gets to hot it makes NOx. A lean condition as a result of a false signal from the oxygen sensor, leaking MAP hose, plugged injector, low fuel pressure, or a vacuum leak will cause NOx as well. Under these conditions the oxygen will oxidize the hydrogen and the carbon, creating extreme combustion chamber temperature. This acts much like a cutting torch used to oxidize the carbon atom of the metal. As the temperature climbs the nitrogen atoms will separate and form with the oxygen atoms to create NOx. As the oxygen is used to form NOx, the oxygen will be used up, causing a lot of hydrocarbons to be unused. One way to also lower you NOx is to have 50/50 mix. Too much water will absorb combustion heat and obtain its boiling point rapidly leaving an air pocket around the combustion chamber. The air pocket will become a hot spot allowing for the combustion chamber temperature to rise. 75% or more antifreeze, which forms a blanket around the combustion chamber, keeping heat in and allowing the combustion chamber temperature to rise. The EGR can block up your intake with carbon too, so a good spot to clean up. I am not pro EGR, however in a state that will stick a sniffer in the tail pipe it is needed to pass smog for 1995 and earlier pre OBII engines. I don't use a EGR my self, since 1992 and older is exempt here in Texas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ride172 Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 Well my egr is not functioning on my 88 Renix Mj. The knock sensor is unplugged as well. My truck passes the test with flying colors. The NOx is less then a 1/4 of what is allowed. So it is not needed in this state. I'm going to believe myself over a person from Texas since I live in CO and have tested my MJ 3 times without an egr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marine1Texas Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 Ride172 you have great running engines that has low NOx and that is fine. You take it to some one in Larimer County that does not do inspection by the rules that is fine you lucky one. MJ Maniac does not live in the same county, and he is from what I see bringing a vehicle in state from another state. If he gets lucky to get a inspection with out the person lifting the hood and looking for those parts that would be awesome. However it he gets some one who go's by the book, auto fail right? Yes, so that go's for any state that has the sniffer test, that is done by the book. When I lived in the Colorado Springs, el paso county during training I had to do the inspection on first registration. It failed because was missing the belt to smog pump. Their was not emission test needed, however visual fail. I am trying to give the person the full information on what is legal. I have a EGR on my 2 MJ but plugged they check every year on inspection here in Texas. I am not a fan of the EGR, however under federal which is below states EGR is required. So states that adopt emission testing and have inspection require it. You can always get inspectors who by pass the laws. The design of the EGR as what I explained earlier, however if you have a great working engine that passes that is great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikekaz1 Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 I'm confused a little on the process out there? so you have to inspect your vehicle before you get a in state registration? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marine1Texas Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 If I remember it was just that VIN check because out of state and the emission check which requires ; visual inspection of emissions equipment, testing the emissions, gas cap seal test, and safety inspection. However in the county I lived in El Paso no longer does emission testing, they only test diesels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnj92131 Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 I would not complain about an emissions check on a 25 or 30 year old vehicle. California requires emission checks on anything built/sold after 1975. The ERG system works exactly as described to lower peak combustion temperatures. NOx formation happens at very high combustion temps. Below a certain temp, NOx does not form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ride172 Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 Well first it was stated that the egr had to be there to reduce NOx then it was changed to a good running engine doesn't need one. Maybe you should run for president. Also there is no safety inspection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marine1Texas Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 Read again, I never stated everyone doesn't need a EGR! I Stated you and "you" alone have a "great engine" because you don't need one! Straight up rid172 tell everyone to break the law and saying something is not needed, but is the law. See not all law breakers get away with it forever and some never get away with it at all. Fact your Engine is not getting to the temps that the original makers designed the engine had in the combustion chamber, so the EGR would be a need to lower the NOx that is great for you. Why are you so confrontational? Trying to change my words around, it's not like I am calling you out or what not! This is a forum on exchanging information, he asked if he needs EGR to pass emission in Colorado. According to Colorado DMV website he needs one if it came with it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikekaz1 Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 Was OBD1 really that big of a game changer to adjust these NOx levels to where the EGR system stopped being used? I don't see how the same engine set up running between renix and OBD1/2 could have changed that much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marine1Texas Posted March 27, 2016 Share Posted March 27, 2016 The HO 4.0 head had a different cam configuration to promote exhaust scavenging, which was why they dropped the EGR. That's what I read Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ride172 Posted March 27, 2016 Share Posted March 27, 2016 The answer is NO. You do not need an egr to pass emissions in CO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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