Driveway Ornament To Daily Driver: 7 Years!

[Minuit]

congratulations you are a beautiful mj

 

Thanks  :cheers:

[Minuit]

I'll make a post later with much more detailed info, but the interior is almost to the point where I can say it's almost where I want it to be:

 

A few remarks for now:

- The carpet is from Stockinteriors.com in the color "Mist Grey" - in person it is an almost exact match for the darker grey parts of the interior. I got the standard cutpile carpet with mass backing. The backing is basically identical to the OEM carpet. It took some convincing, and I probably could work on it some more, but in the end I'm pretty happy with how it turned out. The only place it's iffy is at the very back where the jack is stowed, but I think I can make it look much nicer with some more tuning.

- The transmission output bushing is bad, which makes it hard to judge the sound level, but it does seem significantly quieter with MLV on the floors, firewall, and cab rear. After I do the doors and fix the output bushing, I'll get some SPL readings.

- I bought 40 square feet of mass loaded vinyl from Trademark Soundproofing, and that was enough to completely cover the floors, the cab rear, some of the firewall, and the B pillars up to the rear window. 2 sheets of 1/8" neoprene CCF from Foambymail.com was enough to back the MLV with some extra to make gaskets.

- I took the time to source a NOS A/C evaporator, and if I were doing this again I probably would just go aftermarket. My reason for using an OEM evaporator was to keep the temperature probe which cuts the A/C if the evaporator freezes up, but that's really not a big deal. In addition the probe is a huge pain in the @$$  to extract in one piece. The aftermarket evaporators are also parallel flow and very similar to the 97+ part, which makes them more efficient in an R-134a application.

- Speaking of A/C, I need to get along with rebuilding this system. After driving more modern cars for a while, this truck's A/C is "just ok." I think it may be undercharged slightly. I broke the scale I usually use to weigh refrigerant cans when charging!

- The dash is from a '96 Cherokee. In my state it is legal to swap dashboards for restoration purposes. The old dash looked ok but many of the attachment points for things like the dash bezel were destroyed. The '96 dash doesn't have the two clips for the dash bezel on either side of the steering wheel, so for now I took an old crappy dash bezel and cut the clips off to fit.

- I'm really torn on what sort of door panels I should get. That's why I still have the ones with the holes for the window cranks cut out.

- It's not in the picture, but I fixed the tear in the driver side seat cover.

 

 

 

[johnj92131]

What is your sound meter readings now and before the sound proofing job?  I hope you will post them before too long.

 

Thanks,

 

JJ

 

 

[Minuit]

There's a couple reasons why I haven't posted them. The main one is that the transmission tailshaft bushing is worn and is making quite a bit of noise which will obviously skew the numbers with junk noise that shouldn't be there. That also makes it hard to tell how much quieter it is by ear, since the noise from the bushing drowns out most road/exhaust noise at speed. I also haven't done anything to the doors yet - that will happen soon.

 

Before the soundproofing, highway driving at 70mph with the windows up, radio off, and AC on low gave a steady 78 dB on multiple roads on multiple days in multiple directions. At 50 the readings were between 75-76 dB. Not the worst I've seen, but definitely not ideal. The truck never was "earplugs required" loud but it was unpleasant to listen to for hours at a time. There's also substantial wind noise in my truck. I'm attributing that at least partially to $#!&ty aftermarket weatherstripping, but that needs to be dealt with separately. I do not expect MLV to make any difference whatsoever for wind noise.

 

For reference, highway numbers for my T-bird (which still has the awful, rock hard tires the PO put on it) are about 75, and my father's 200k mile Buick with new tires does about 73-74. 

 

From the little driving I've done since then, (bearing in mind that the output bushing makes a pretty nasty noise) it seems like the road noise is down substantially. I can't wait to see what the numbers say, I just have to do some housekeeping first.

 

Here are some pics of the installation to tide you over:

(this is CCF, but the MLV was cut to the same pattern - I used scraps to fill the gap where the trans tunnel meets the floor pan)

(I was really down to scraps by this point, if you couldn't tell)

[Minuit]

I finally don't have to look at those damn holes in the door panels anymore...

 

 

 

My new phone can take panoramic pics. I suck at making them look decent.

[Minuit]

I wasn't going to post them, but I have taken some preliminary sound readings:

 

55 mph: 70 dBA

65 mph, behind a semi with very little noticeable wind noise: 71 dBA

80 mph in heavy headwinds: fluctuated but the highest number seen was 76 dBA

70 mph in moderate wind: 73.5 dBA

 

Previously, at 70 mph in moderate wind I recorded a very consistent 78 dBA. At 55mph with no noticeable wind noise, readings varied from 75-76 dBA.

All were taken with the same situation as before - radio off, A/C on but on the lowest fan setting, both windows all the way up. The sock on my meter is about at nose level in the middle of the cab. All readings are A-weighted, not sure if I ever mentioned this. My SPL meter is this one.

 

Fun fact: don't take sound measurements with your phone. I downloaded a few different apps on a few different phones: my Motorola Nexus 6, my mom's LG G3, my old LG G3 (the two G3s didn't even agree with eachother), and my dad's Galaxy S7 and every different configuration gave vastly different readings, some disagreeing by about 20 dB! Don't bother taking measurements if you don't have a real meter, preferably one that displays which scale it is recording in.

 

Here's a site with a huge list of readings from modern European cars. Irritatingly, they don't indicate what weighting these readings are in. dBA gives significantly less weight to low frequency noise than dBC, for example - without knowing the weighting of two sound measurements they cannot be directly compared. dBA is the most common one to see. Maybe they're in unweighted decibels, but most meters out there record in dBA. Without clearly defined and appropriate units, your measurement is useless! For some more useless but neat measurements, Motorweek reviewed the XJ in 1984 and got a reading of 74 dB at 55, calling it "just short of loud" My goal for this project is 68 dBA at 70 mph. I think that's achievable - I have more room to work with still.

 

Keep in mind that I have done nothing to the doors (this means I have 2 huge holes in my "bubble" that line up directly with my ears) and nothing that could affect wind noise in any way (at the moment, I'm piecing together a full set of NOS weatherstripping). When not in the wind, the difference in noise from before is substantial and immediately noticeable. The minor pinion bearing noise that used to come from directly behind me now comes from the passenger side armrest.

 

On a side note, I've been very impressed with my Michelin Defenders on this truck. Much better handling, much quieter, and much rounder than the Coopers I had on here previously. I know some of you guys have good luck with Cooper tires, but after what I went through having 2/4 tires being out of round from brand new, they're firmly in the "never again" pile.

[Minuit]

In which I make more "remarks" that don't really fit into a build thread update. A build thread update is coming, but I'd really rather finish the doors before I make it. I've driven the truck a little bit more and I'm going through that usual period after some big work where there still needs to be some tweaking done.

 

- NOS weatherstripping collection is going well. I have everything except the division bar seals (shouldn't be a problem to find) and the "secondary" seals that run along the A-pillar (might be a problem to find). Some of the parts are older than my truck but still appear brand new.

 

- Tailshaft bushing still hasn't been resolved. I only have the ability to work on stuff on weekends, and it's kind of a big job to take the rear half of the transmission off. There's a tool to R&R it in-vehicle but it's $$$$. Coincidentally if anyone happens to have one of these tools I can borrow, you'll be my best friend forever! I drove the truck to Cookeville and back once to take sound readings, but I'm trying to put as few miles on it as possible to avoid damage.

 

- I'm amazed at how few squeaks and rattles there are now. The plastic trim across the cab wall kept coming loose and causing a huge rattle - that was solved by replacing the clips. (I need to do some research and try to find a source for these bloody things!) There's one small rattle inside the dash but I think I know what it is. One of the rivets in the passenger door has come loose AGAIN. Naturally, it decides to do this after I put the new door panels on. Overall, the interior feels well made again. I took my time putting felt in between where plastic panels would rub, and that's paid dividends.

 

- I need to adjust how the headliner fits. Right now the B-pillar trims don't quite fit right. Just a matter of lining things up the way they want to be.

 

- I installed a power antenna... because I wanted to. Not that this was my goal, but this truck now totally has the Accusound factory sound system other than the door and rear speakers. One problem though: the antenna cable going to the radio has a female plug. The power antenna also has a female plug. I don't think the plug on the antenna is a standard Motorola jack. Still need to figure that one out before I can use the antenna. I also got a NOS plastic surround for it!

 

- I got 19mpg on the last tank of gas. Dunno what that's about.

 

- The 97+ heater hoses make checking my oil much more convenient now that the heater control valve is gone.

 

- schardein and I have had a lengthy discussion on A/C. I've decided as a result of this to convert my truck to the 94-96 R134a native system. The one thing I haven't decided on is what parallel-flow condenser to use. There's a fairly cheap one on Rockauto that isn't the full width of the radiator, but Omix-Ada makes one that is full size and probably provides better cooling. Problem is, it's almost $200 where the Rockauto one is under $50. Hmmm...

 

- Here's a more tangible noise comparison: Before deadening the cab I needed my amplifier to be able to get some bass at 70+. Now, I don't feel like I need it. I still haven't put it in yet, and if anything I have to turn the bass down on my radio. I'm still using the same 56002467 radio I've been using for a while, which is one of the least powerful factory radios at about 34W RMS total.

 

- My rear speakers suuuuuuck. They're Polk Audio 4x6s, and I usually like Polk speakers, but these just sound terrible. I noticed one day that the stereo sounds much, much better when faded to the front. The rear's only contribution is a nasty response peak at about 1250 Hz and another one at 2500. When faded all the way to the front, my Polk 5.25" speakers and the Jensen tweeters work together wonderfully for very clear sound. I may experiment with some 4" full-range speakers, as 4x6 is just a suboptimal size overall. I continue to contest that rear speakers aren't necessary or possibly even desirable in the tiny 2-seat cab of the Comanche, so if you have your heart set on one of those really basic AMC radios, go for it. I don't think you'll be missing much. I still haven't bothered with rear speakers in my '89 either.

 

- Never thought I'd get my hands on a pair of these, but I did:

 

My door seams aren't as unbelievably perfect as Don's, but they'll have to do for now 

 

 

 

[Minuit]

madog7200 came over and we played around with radios for most of Saturday, so that got me motivated to work on stuff on my long weekend.

 

First on the list was getting the radio antenna connected. You wouldn't think these two connectors would plug into eachother....

 

But they do!

Kinda embarrassed I didn't try that out for so long... 

 

The power antenna rocks. FM stations from Nashville (50 miles from where I'm at) come in crystal clear! I can ALMOST hear Cookeville (120 miles away from Columbia) stations. I can even pick up a bunch of AM stations, although the radio still won't seek on them. Aux input still works great without messing with the AM reception even with the antenna plugged in, because the 56002467 is the best radio.

I still haven't worked up the courage to take a Dremel to my new dash to sort out the bezel situation. This crusty one with the hole cut out of it will have to do for just a little bit longer.

 

I've been thinking about dropping the rear an inch or so, so I put a bunch of crap in the bed until I got the stance I wanted...

That's about an inch lower than current in the rear. About 250 pounds of stuff, if I were going to guess. I'd rather lower the rear than lift the front. I like the front stance it has now, and I really don't want to screw with my front geometry.

 

I screwed up the alignment a couple of weeks ago when I installed a new tie rod end and RuffStuff's The Cure, so I 3/4 assed an alignment... with math! And strings tied to jack stands! This video explains the procedure:

 

Here's what I got:

String alignments on this suspension aren't as intuitive as they would be on an IFS vehicle, because the toe adjustments are connected to each other. Still, just takes some trial and error if you're doing it by tape measure. As you see I got it to 1/8"(toe in) on the left and 1/16 on the right. After straightening the steering wheel with this new setting, it drives great. Not a permanent solution, but much better than it was.

 

I also washed and waxed the truck, and shined up the tires. Man, this paint sure isn't what it used to be. The clearcoat is failing in spots all over now. I suppose 26 years is a good run for Chrysler paint, huh?

[HOrnbrod]

On 9/18/2017 at 2:19 PM, Minuit said:

 

Thanks! I just ordered one.  It's difficult to keep them shiny and black.

[Minuit]

 

For everyone else, the p/n for these is 56001183.

[90BlackMJ]

First off, the truck is looking amazing. I cannot wait until the day mine is back together. I just ordered an antenna surround, thanks for the info on that. Second, where did you find the lower door shield, wind baffle, not sure what to call it?

 

 

[Minuit]

22 minutes ago, 90BlackMJ said:

First off, the truck is looking amazing. I cannot wait until the day mine is back together. I just ordered an antenna surround, thanks for the info on that. Second, where did you find the lower door shield, wind baffle, not sure what to call it?

 

 

 

Thanks!

Those things go by a few names. Rocker seal, door to rocker seal, lower door weatherstrip are a few of the ones I've seen. They help a little with sealing up the door gap. I noticed a worthwhile difference in road noise when I installed them. The part number I ordered was 55134856. You'll need two and they aren't side specific. I think I bought the last pair for sale on eBay though. It took me a WHILE to find them! You can also find them on older, high trim XJs. The early versions are riveted to the lower seam, mine are held on with 3M double sided adhesive.

 

Here is a link to more info.

[HOrnbrod]

Holy crap! That was in 09? Seems like yesterday. They're still hangin' solid too.

[Minuit]

The tape on those seals is some serious stuff 

[90BlackMJ]

Awesome, thanks a lot. I'll start my search.

[HOrnbrod]

3 minutes ago, Minuit said:

The tape on those seals is some serious stuff 

 

The seal is mashed tight between the door when closed and the rocker, so it's probably pressed on more firmly now than in 09. Might have to use a chisel  to get them off now. 

[Minuit]

Here's a thought that just popped into my mind. Now that I have brand new carpet, I suddenly care a lot about keeping it clean. Why the HELL do the factory slush mats have a cut-out right next to the brake pedal? That's where your left foot goes! That little oversight completely defeats the purpose of them, and ruins them in my opinion. You can kinda see what I'm talking about in this very old pic:

Seriously, what the hell were they thinking? As a "detail" guy this stuff pisses me off... did nobody think about someone resting their muddy foot next to the brake pedal and messing up the carpet? Are you just supposed to sit in the truck like it's a chair?

 

Naturally, once I realized this they got replaced with a pair of junkyard factory XJ floor mats at $1.35 per. Sorry aftermarket, I'm not spending $70 for reproduction floor mats that are gonna get dirty the first time I drive the truck. The downside is that I had to spend almost an hour each in the shower brushing them out and spraying them with undiluted degreaser to get them anywhere near acceptable. They aren't perfect...

 

 

...but they protect the carpet.

 

I also put my amp back in. Remember how short the input harness was? That severely limited where I could put the amp.

 

I made it longer. A lot longer. In fact, I may have overcompensated a bit.

 

So I could put the amp here:

Please don't try to steal it armed with this new information, thanks. Yes, it's wearing the wiper intermittent box like a hat. As an added bonus, I don't have to take the cluster out to make adjustments. That got old.

 

"But Minuit," you may ask, "It's 12:23 AM. Why are you posting pictures of floor mats in your stupid blog about your stupid truck?" I don't know either.

 

[HOrnbrod]

On 10/16/2017 at 9:08 PM, HOrnbrod said:

 

Thanks! I just ordered one.  It's difficult to keep them shiny and black.

 

[Minuit]

I have done something recently. Not much, but something. Remember the Briarwood dash bezel I got a long time ago and then didn't mention again?

At the old age of 21 I have officially become an old man. I think it looks excellent.

 

I've been wondering how the AMC decks shape up to the Chrysler decks in my system. To justify more screwing around, I made up an excuse - the testing of a new product I'm probably going to be offering soon: a 13-pin Jeep to AMC radio adapter.

For those not in the know, the 85-87 AMC decks have about 6 inches of wire coming out of them rather than a connector that plugs right into the radio. My adapter adds about 6 more inches of wire. Add to that my amp install (which piggybacks off the factory wiring) and the fact that my radio harness is longer than stock as it is, and the logistics of fitting all this stuff into the radio cavity becomes rather difficult:

That's better. It almost looks clean! For those in a similar predicament, there's a lot of unused space off to the right of where the radio would be. Stuff as much of your wiring as you can in there. Also, if you can't tell, I like electrical tape.

 

Here's the end result. The AMC radio I chose to test is my RX-161, recently liberated from the '89. It has an aux input and was ready to go. I wish it was the version with the green display, but oh well. It even works the power antenna! Is it sacrilege to put a radio out of a Grand Wagoneer in a lowly Comanche?

So how does it sound compared to my RX-171 that I've had in there for a while? Pretty similar actually. A little warmer, maybe. Definitely not as powerful, and if you don't have an amp to do the heavy lifting I'd go easy on the volume, as these tend to run hot with a full complement of 4 ohm speakers. I really do recommend an amp if you choose to run an AMC radio in 2017. Tune the gain right and you'll get all the volume you've ever wanted while not stressing the radio, and not turning your volume knob into an on-off switch. As much as I like the '91 Jeep radios, the AMC ones just look right.

 

Speaking of speakers, I recently killed one of my Jensen Accusound factory dash tweeters. I've been wanting to go with a real component system up front for a while anyway. Stay tuned.

[Minuit]

I was going to write a sentence here about how long it's been since the last update and how little I've done, and also quoting the post where I said I'd like to be done by 2018 and laughing at it, but frankly I couldn't come up with anything that was remotely interesting to read.

 

After an extremely exhaustive search, I found a 1991-specific underhood light! You wouldn't believe how long it took me to find one. This thing is seriously bright, and ticks off the last part of the factory "Light Group" option.

The connector is already present for it in the harness, so once I found the correct light that hadn't had the connector snipped off of it, it was simply a matter of mounting the light to the hood, via two pre-punched divots.

 

I have wanted to add a 2-way component speaker system to the truck. This is where I do it. I had grown pretty tired of the sound of my Polk Audio coaxial door speakers. In my case, they were extremely fatiguing to listen to and had way too much response in exactly the frequency ranges that hurt my ears, which as it turns out is a fairly common criticism of Polk speakers. I found out that I was looking for speakers with a "smooth" sound. This lead me to Morel speakers, which is what I bought:

 

This is the Tempo Ultra 502 component set, one of their mid range products. If you look on Crutchfield, they sell for over $400. Don't buy them there. I imported mine from Israel at a huge discount. Shipping didn't take as long as you'd think, either.

 

The woofers install in the normal place in the door. That's the easy part.

 

On pretty much any vehicle, you have to get a little creative to install tweeters. The most common way to physically mount the tweeters is in a door panel or A-pillar, but as I'm sure you all know by now I'm anal about an original appearance so I want this entire install looking factory. Thankfully, Jeep thought to give us tweeter locations in the lower dash panel, which is what those little vents are. Not only do you have to mount them, you also have to be able to split the signal between the woofer and tweeter with the crossover. Basically, there's no way to do this without altering the factory wiring in some way.

 

Hello factory tweeter connector...

So long, we hardly knew ye.

The factory Jensen Accusound wiring (which for some reason I added when I installed the power windows last year) shares the exact same signal between the door speakers and the tweeters. This won't do, and because of the way it's wired there's no way to get out of cutting that connector off. Removing this connector pretty much deletes the Jensen factory wiring. Why did I bother adding that anyway?

 

Speaking of the stock setup, I wanted to be able to painlessly return to it if I ever decided to run coaxial speakers again.

The way I setup the wiring is a little too complicated for me to explain at 10 PM on four hours of sleep, but I have the choice of running the old setup (just plug the connectors with green/brown wires together) or running component speakers, where the blue and white wires come in. They extend the wiring to an external crossover (the box that comes with the speakers), which splits the signal from the amplifier into high frequencies for the tweeter and midrange and low frequencies for the woofer. Of course, everything you see here was also done on the passenger side. The only difference is the wire colors.

 

These are the factory Jensen tweeters. The tweeters themselves aren't the worst thing in the world, but any decent aftermarket set will run circles around them. That's the only time you're going to hear that phrase come out of my mouth.

However, it turns out that my new Morel tweeters are almost exactly the same size as the holes in the Jensen tweeter brackets!

 

A couple of rivets and a little bit of dremel action later, and the Morel tweeters fit perfectly in the factory brackets:

 

The quick disconnects that came on the tweeters were a little bit too aftermarkety for me, so I snipped them off and added real connectors. I don't know why there's a Leatherman in this picture.

 

The crossovers just barely fit on my very crowded lower dash panel with no room at all to spare.

 

And finally, the tweeters were installed in the factory locations.

 

Was it worth it? Hell yes it was. The Morel component speakers are so much better than the outgoing Polks it's hard to put into words. The annoying midrange peaks are almost completely gone, there's way more bass, and the high frequencies are present but not overbearing. I'll have to find some royalty free music and do a sound test, because the sound in my truck really is excellent now.

 

And finally, it's time to address something I've been letting go for a while - namely, the fact that my tie rod ends and track bar are very old (possibly original) and are a little loose in their old age. After finding a popped grease boot on the drag link, I decided to do a complete rebuild of everything that hasn't been replaced in the steering. I didn't bother documenting the process, because replacing tie rods and track bars on a non rusty vehicle has to be the most boring thing ever. The Moog parts I used fit fine, but the grease fittings on some parts were garbage and wouldn't thread into the part. On half of the parts I had to reuse the old grease fittings, which of course most likely being 27 year old Mopar parts threaded in perfectly.

 

Old and rotten:

There's one more tie rod end, but I replaced it when I installed the "Cure" a while back.

 

New and sexy:

The shiny coating on everything is a rust preventative. Although I'm sure Moog has gone to every possible length to protect their parts from rusting (), I would like these expensive new parts to look new for as long as possible, especially considering I may very well have to drive this on salted roads.

 

That of course meant it was time for yet another string alignment!

 As expected, the steering feels much more secure and much tighter. The truck also stops a little straighter now. Maybe the rotten old track bar bushing had something to do with the brake pull I can't quite pin down?

 

Anyway, that wraps up 2017. Hopefully I'll do something interesting in 2018.

[Minuit]

On 1/10/2018 at 11:12 PM, Minuit said:

Anyway, that wraps up 2017. Hopefully I'll do something interesting in 2018.

HAHA! Good freakin' luck with that! I haven't done $#!&! The truck has been mostly in a happy place, and hasn't done anything weird recently. Its lack of A/C has meant I've been mostly driving other vehicles (the low pressure cutoff switch decided that sticking closed and running the compressor at 100% duty cycle was a good idea, regardless of if there was actually any refrigerant to be compressed).

 

Recently, I've been paying its older, somewhat more French brother more attention, adding novel features to it such as a functioning cooling system and a parking brake. This truck must have not liked that very much, so it protested by trying to lose a wheel on me:

On the way back from the gym last Wednesday, I noticed that the front end felt very unsecured. There was also a very unsettling noise coming from up front, but I couldn't pinpoint exactly where it was coming from. The morning after, I decided to look at it to see what happened, and as you can probably see I didn't have to look too hard. By the time I got back home, the wheel was being held on by one, very loose, lugnut. Oops. Check your lug nuts every oil change, folks.

 

As thanks for not actually killing me, I replaced the offending rotor, re-lubricated the pad mating surfaces, repacked the wheel bearing (which still looks almost brand new after about 25,000 miles), and rotated the tires. I took exactly 0 pics, since the old school tapered wheel bearings on these early 2WD axles are dirty business. I might repack the other side, or I may not. I don't plan on keeping this 2WD axle in service for much longer anyway, but I'm sure all 3 of you reading this know how that goes by now.

 

I also noticed that the tailpipe (replaced in early 2002 per a receipt I found) has grown a few speed holes. By that, I actually mean it's pretty much rusted away.

Look at that exhaust hanger that's sitting there acting like it's doing something!

 

I guess it's time for the third exhaust on this otherwise almost rust free Southern truck. Kind of annoying, considering I just was under my 1996 Thunderbird with a completely original exhaust, even down to the mufflers and cats, and it's literally spotless. I'm not even sure I can blame the aftermarket here, since this piece of junk has actually been on the truck longer than the original was.

 

In other news, meet the new Dash Bezel of the Month!

I finally found the coveted brushed aluminum Laredo dash bezel. The woodgrain Briarwood bezel I had before was starting to grate on me - I'm not really a fake wood person, I just liked the rarity of it being a 1991 and 1992 only part. I'll probably sell it, if any woodgrain freaks out there are paying attention.

 

This one actually has a shiny, brushed look to it, as opposed to the much more common painted version that briefly graced the '89:

 

Bonus kitten picture!

[neohic]

19 hours ago, Minuit said:

Bonus kitten picture!

 

YAASS!!!

[Minuit]

30 minutes ago, neohic said:

 

YAASS!!!

 

Her name is Peanut. She's a little bit of a nut 

 

[Jeep Driver]

The Morels look interesting. 

 

Kind of curious as to why more MJ people are not interested in sound?

[Minuit]

17 hours ago, Jeep Driver said:

The Morels look interesting. 

 

Kind of curious as to why more MJ people are not interested in sound?

I really like the Morels. They're just "nice" all around. For a 5" speaker, they have an incredible amount of bass. I've had several passengers ask if I had a sub hidden somewhere.