DirtyComanche Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 So, as I see it you have two options (and something inbetween) which would be welding it entirely on the vehicle, or tacking in place and welding it off the vehicle. If you're to weld it off the vehicle I'd think that you would have to design it accordingly in that you'd have to actually be able to take it off - ie, all mount locations would essentially have to be outboard of the body's major dimensions. But if you're to weld it in place care would have to be taken so that the nodes could also be accessed for welding. Which poses more of a problem if one means to keep the cage tight to the body. Now, I'll go out on a limb and also say that most people would MIG weld their cages, with the exception of those who have the means and desire to TIG their cages. Am I correct in these assumptions? Anyways; I'm in need of an exo for my MJ and I'm still weighing my options on execution. I'm limited in space in that my garage only has a 8' ceiling, so if I'm to tack the cage in place and remove it for welding some major creativity would be needed. Hence I would like to weld it in place if at all possible. Which brings me to another limitation - I can't MIG weld. It will be sticked entirely. Which you can actually use to get access to tight places sometimes - but a lot of the time it seems to not help. Also, I do not want my exo to get in the way of my wheeling - ie, if it gets me hung up I'm going to be in a bad mood. Saving sheetmetal isn't really a huge deal at this point - it's really more my life and longevity of the body as a structure. I appologize for the pics being ugly, and that this is for a MJ but I used my XJ as I have more pictures of it for some reason (WTH?). My design idea is something like this: Rear, sides: (old pic, yeah, I fixed that @$$ end) Image Not Found The cage behind the cab will not be any wider than it is up into the area where the roof tapers in by the rain gutters. Which means it's not going to help the body much. I figure I'll go with the nice big full X as there's not as much that can be done for lateral stability up front. The bars extending back to the wheelwells might be unneeded - but I will use them as I think it'll look hokey otherwise and I'm going to throw a big 'pane tank there anyways. The sliders are also extended so I can try to squeeze my batteries into that space as a saddle - because that would be cool. Thankfully my XJ's front end is pretty much the same - other than it sorta has a bumper. Image Not Found I'm debating if the fender area should go inside the sheetmetal or not. It's not exactly a huge deal if the fenders get messed (wait, they already are) as they can be replaced or flattened if I get in the mood to do bodywork. If they go inside I'm unsure how much protection I will have for the lights at the front. But if I build it as drawn I might as well not have turn signals anyways. And yes, a windshield bar. Do I need it? I'm just thinking I'd better not break the glass if I do it... Okay, imagine this is a MJ roof: Image Not Found Obviously this isn't the best design. Another X or a single diagonal cross would be better. But I think it will cause major headaches with the bending and welding if I was to do that. Mostly this would be because the tubes along the sides and front are not above the roofline. Should it matter? This is how I think I will build it... Other than the front. Image Not Found The light blue (sliders, and upmounts to the bed) would be welded on first. They're obviously the usual starting point. Then the main structure would be built in place and tacked up. This includes the roof, windshield bars, and cowl cross bar. I'd then lift the front end of the cage up to tip it off the back of the truck. If this can't be done inside my garage I'll just have to face the cold. It would then be fully welded, then tipped back onto the truck - reverse of removal; and welded in place to the deck and sliders. The red braces on the rear would then be welded in. I'd then move to the nasty pickle of a front (light green). I'd be doing it in place. I'll have to decide what I'll be doing with it first though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pingpong Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 DC you r ideas are solid. Personally I am cutting away my front bumper, and dooing away with all my inner fender meat, and I am going to build a front cage. I would recommend narrowing your front sheetmetal some, and moving your headlights inboard some to give you more room for tires, and so you can improve your approach angle. The way my cage was built was mocked up on Pong, then removed and welded, then set back down ontop of the rock rails. Made for some good welds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sinnaevd Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 could you not take some super careful measuremetns and build the top (dark blue) no ur garage floor, then take it, put it onthe truck outside and then pull in back in to weld it solid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sinnaevd Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 The way my cage was built was mocked up on Pong, then removed and welded, then set back down ontop of the rock rails. Made for some good welds. great minds think alike? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyComanche Posted January 21, 2007 Author Share Posted January 21, 2007 I always think about narrowing it. But the stock rad is really not convenient to do that with - well, I think it's pretty near impossible with it where it is. It's too bad it's not like a wrangler hood with so much space under it - then I could put the rad on the bottom of the hood and not have to put it in the back of the truck. But I figure with this design I can easily enough remove the front portion later and narrow it up. Oh, Pat, how many of feet of tubing was in your's again? Nevermind, 200' = 20 sticks. I shouldn't need quite as much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyComanche Posted January 22, 2007 Author Share Posted January 22, 2007 Thought about this more. Might as well do things in this order: -Build new intake manifold (from scratch) -Run propane crap, at least get it mocked up -Remove all unneeded wiring -Hack front sheetmetal -Bend up rock rails and front tubing. Route coolant through rock rails, rear mount that rad over top of the propane tank. -Bend up rest of tube. Then I get to narrow the front too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feerocknok Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 Out of curiousity, do you drive this truck or just wheel it? I can't imagine seeing this thing pass me on the highway! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyComanche Posted January 22, 2007 Author Share Posted January 22, 2007 Well... I don't have a tow-rig. But, it'll still be plated until the big ol' popo and their evil VIs catch up to me. Then I'll get the tow rig and be done with that worry. As it is it is not 'street legal' and could not be certifited as such - unless I start forking out major cash to get somebody to 'approve' the modifications. As long as I keep the wheels covered I'd actually be no worse than I am right now, I'd just need some removable flares. There's some vehicles that I know that are still plated despite being back-halfed, tubed framed, exo'd, running 49s, etc. It's mostly about not getting caught, and partly about smooth talking when you are. It's amazing what they'll let slip as long as you don't do anything too stupid. If I can find a picture of Ern's toy you'll understand what I mean (he finially got VI'd when his passenger door fell off at a stop light in front of a cop). But, if I pass you on the highway I'll be sure to wave! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombat Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 exo cages are ghey... either make it interior, or don't make it.. and don't stick weld it. if you are using the proper materials then a stick weld will not be strong enough or penitrate enough... if you can stick, you can mig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pingpong Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 exo cages are ghey... either make it interior, or don't make it.. and don't stick weld it. if you are using the proper materials then a stick weld will not be strong enough or penitrate enough... if you can stick, you can mig. Well as far as exo's being ghey.... lets see your rig ;) wheeling with no cage is shall we say :dunce: And as far as MIG being a better weld... I think you need to do some research on this :smart: .120 wall tubing is 1/8, I can penetrate that and make a good sound weld using Oxy acytelene, granted i wouldn't want it to be a structual joint, but it would hold. IN welding class it wasn't uncommomon for us to weld 3/4 to 1" plate using SMAW, granted it took many passes, and was very time consuming compared to the GMAW, or FCAW process. When I had my work done, I didnt worry about it being street legal when done, cause I knew if I built it to be street legal, wheeling where I go and with the group go with would not be possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yj2mj Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 Forget the exo, aside from ending up looking like a jungle gym, you will end up damaging the body anyways. If you run an exo, you cage will eventually damage the body when the cage is bent out of shape enough. Guess it could be the guys who wheel with me, but never seen an exo that was still straight after a few trail rides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88MJay Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 I've never been a fan of the "exo" either. I understand why people build them. They just look like crap. I'm putting an interior cage in mine. I've got a S&W Cherokee kit in the garage. I had S&W do a few custom mods though so I could use it on my MJ. If you are going the exo route like in the pics everything looks good except I would triangulate the roof instead of the parrallel streamers and run an upside down "v" in the windshield as opposed to the one bar with the gussets. I'd really like to see a door/hip bar in there but I understand you want to keep the stock doors. Then just gusset the whole thing with 1/4" gussets or 1" tube. my 2 cents again. :cheers: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pingpong Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 The main reason why I did my exo was an interior cage would take up more room in a tight interior all ready. Now a YR later, and I will be adding an iterior cage of sorts, but mostly to protect me more. Also at the time I did mine.... S&W wasn't selling an interior cage, and to have a custom cage built was just as much. BTW I havent really bent anything on my rig, and I have done to flops, a couple near endo's and some other body damage inducing things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feerocknok Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 If I can find a picture of Ern's toy you'll understand what I mean (he finially got VI'd when his passenger door fell off at a stop light in front of a cop). But, if I pass you on the highway I'll be sure to wave! I'd love to see that one! If you're doing alot of snow runs I don't understand what everyone's concern is; of course, I'm not sure what other type of wheeling you do, but I'm guessing you're a log humper, which an exo still seems like it wouldn't be a problem. Hope you can keep it on the good side of the law! Oh! That battery tray looks pretty cool. What would you do on the other side? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyComanche Posted January 23, 2007 Author Share Posted January 23, 2007 Actually, lots of rock. Snow is just something to do in the winter, most guys are rebuilding at that time - the real snow guys have rigs built ONLY to run snow. But, now we've finially found good hardcore rock locally - so it'll be a lot more punishing than before. It used to just be limited body damage and anything on the underbelly would get hurt. Now it we should be putting dents in the roof without much trouble. And yeah, there's trees to. And they bite. And the guys who think exo's get bent or destoryed... Well, they can - if they're built wrong. An interior cage offers only a small protected area with minimal mounting points (okay, you can squeeze a few in there, but I don't have any space as it is). The Exo spreads the load over the entire body and can make the difference between being able to drive away after a roll or having to cut it into itty bitty peices and carry it out. Everyone who thinks I should X the roof is right, and I looked at it again and it won't be a bending nightmare - so I will. And about it being ugly. Well. I guess that's a matter of taste. Oh, and the other battery box will probably just be a place to store $#!&. Always need storage space. Lastly, here's Ern's rig a fair while before he got VI'd. He drove it in WORSE shape than this for maybe 4-6 months. He'd have been fine other than his poor run of luck. Image Not Found I should see if I've got pictures of any of the highly modified (other than body damage) guys that still street their stuff. Exo-toy. He's almsot back-halfed. But that's his DD. Image Not Found Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feerocknok Posted January 23, 2007 Share Posted January 23, 2007 And I got a ticket for my tailights being pink. Those are some gnarly rigs! The first Toy doen't look too illegal minus mudflaps and mirrors. And a door falling off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted January 23, 2007 Share Posted January 23, 2007 I seem to remember reading somewhere that a guy (I think in Texas) simply got his rig plated as a farm implement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyComanche Posted January 23, 2007 Author Share Posted January 23, 2007 I seem to remember reading somewhere that a guy (I think in Texas) simply got his rig plated as a farm implement. Sadly that doesn't work here. Unless you own a farm. The last time I checked I didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twisty Posted January 23, 2007 Share Posted January 23, 2007 i wanted to get my MJ plated as a farm vehicle...we do have horses after all. but the law says we need to have 5+ acres of land to do that... :hateputers: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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