Opinon Wanted.

[DirtyComanche]

I'm at a loss here. I've not actually touched my truck in 3 weeks. I've made excuses as to of why not, being to busy or it being too cold, but that's not the real reason. The real problem is I'm at a failing point as to of what to do. It's depressing. I'm going to try to outline my problems, and my proposed solution(s). Problems aren't in any praticular order.

 

Problem one:

 

The D30. I don't like it. It's compounded by the 8.8, which I also don't really like. I feel the D30 is either going to fail me now (with 35s) or later, as I'll probably try to track down 37s. I'm also quite heavy on the skinny pedal, and probably won't be keeping the 4.0 stock. As the D30 sits, I haven't regeared it, but I bought a R&P, Trutrac, and bearing kit. I'll never use that dealer again either, he was a nice guy but I got a new a$$hole for it. Also, I've got a vac disco axle, and I still have the two peice shafts with the 260X ujoints and all that other lovely stuff. I had a line on new shafts, but that got messed. Basically I'm hesitant to throw down the cash to have it regeared, and then have to buy new shafts, seals to get rid of the vac disco(?) and still have it fail. If it's a shaft failure, I can get chromoly, and kiss away more money. If it's a R&P, then what? Ditch it? Not to mention I'm probably going to eat unit bearings like a fat boy eats donuts.

 

Problem two:

 

The 8.8. I'm in it now, sorta. It cost a lot of money, as they're hard to get here. That is, the disk brake versions. I've bough all new brake parts for it, well, pads and rotors and brake lines. I've realistically got everything to make it work, and it is already in. Shocks need some work too, and I messed with the leaves; so I'll have to pull it all apart or it's going to either kill the leaf packs or not flex. However, I still feel it's rather on the light duty side, possibly partly because it's an in-house ford jobby. Realistically it's not really a problem, and I could sell it now for what I have in it, or very close. I also spent money on spacers (they're same design as the powertrax ones, before anybody jumps on me for that) which I could also recover most of.

 

Problem three:

 

Unibody, grr. Actually, more like "I hate rusty's". I didn't really feel like admitting this to anyone, but well, due to the vaugness of their instructions and model specific circumstances (read, I'm an idiot); I 'accidently' drilled the holes for the LA braces in the wrong spots. One of them 'kind of' went through an internal brace in the uniframe, which leaves me a bit worried. Heck, a 15Km/H collision will probably pretzel this thing, which well, bodes well if you like living on the edge, but I would feel bad if I had a passenger.

 

Problem four:

 

Drivetran woes. I have a tired as heck 4.0, which I have a fair amount of faith in. I figure when it's really on its way out it'll at least be nice enough to warn me. I also have a peugot BA10/5, which was getting noisy before I started this insanity. The NP231 should be fine, so no huge issue. Compounding my drivetran touchiness though, is I dropped a large chunk of change on a TomWoods CV DS, which basically I don't want to have to change. So, I'm in a bit of a bind there, unless I'm willing to play with my wheelbase, which would just be a huge complication.

 

 

Did I miss anything? Yeah, my doors don't work my paint sucks beyond belief : and I'm still out a cab window (which started all of this). Otherwise I think things are decent, providing you like the sound of an open header and don't plan to listen to music.

 

Solutions: (Need opinons here, or something)

 

1. Do nothing. Well, as close to 'do nothing' as is possible regarding the circumstances. Either weld pipe into the holes in the unibody, then cover with plate, or what? I WON'T leave it. Just regear D30, pick up shafts with 297X ujoints, phone warn and get the axle disco delete kit, cross fingers. Build up a junkyard stroker (that'll be a fun learner...) and mate it to an AX-15, and hope that the 4.0/BA10/5 will survive till that is done? (I'm not too worried about that) Keep my 8.8. Fix other unmentioned problems (steering rings a bell now).

 

2. Sell it/scrape it. I could probably part this out and recover fairly well. I could then either start a project the right way, or just move onto something that doesn't involve molesting jeeps. (Hey, I was pretty good at building model trains)

 

3. Sell D30, gears, trutrac at a rather high loss. Sells wheel spacers for 8.8. Obtain D44 from a grand wagoneer, weld on bracket kit for control arms, etc. Pay to have axle welded up, buy gears, traction aid and pay to have them set up. Buy wheel adapters for 8.8, and a new set of wheels. Wheels are cheap, the shipping isn't. I might have some luck in a junkyard for the 6 on 5.5 (?) bolt pattern though. Fix unibody(duh). Worry about drivetran some other time.

 

4. Sell D30, gears etc, 8.8 and associated items. Buy axle donor. Say screw traction aids, or get ezlockers or such. Fix unibody. Worry about drivetran some other time. Hope that I can get my pinion length close enough to the 8.8 that I don't need to mess with the D/S. New wheels, or reuse what comes with the donor vehicle.

 

5. Something else? I'm an idiot?

 

 

 

 

So, thoughts? I worry to much? Few things to keep in mind though. I suck at driving, I'm more than likely to revert to the throttle if I get into anything touchy. I also like using my throttle. I OFTEN wheel alone, and in places that 'remote' isn't even an apporpriate word for; basically your crap breaks and you're walking for 3 days. I also don't like to be the dick that broke when I'm with people. Hmm, I probably forgot things, but you get the point. I'll post this elsewhere too.

[mj_lover]

yikes, i know what your going thru, its a stage, terrible* stage at that. what I would do, is get it to run, your engine and tranny will last long enough to get a stroker built up, the 8.8 should be fine, no worries there, the d30, keep it for now, don't waste money on it, drive it till it dies, while waiting for it to die, take your time to build a nice 44, or 60 :twisted: other then that, if you need a brake from the mj, take a break, its not a crime, heck, it helps get your mind out of it, so when you come back, everything looks alot simpler.

 

good luck mate

 

p.s. lousy word filters..grrr...

 

i see your in bc, if your looking for a box, why not drive down to cali, long haul, but rust free parts...just a thought

[whowey]

Okay, I can answer a couple of problems.

 

Why don't you use outers from a YJ D30? Thicker yokes.

[Cooter]

Toss it together and use it- most of your money is already spent.

 

You are just punishing yourself for things you think aren't stout enough, but what are you doing with your MJ now??

 

Sure, you will never break it, but at this rate, you will never use it.

 

Don't fall for magazine and "My Manhood is Bigger Than You" buildups.

 

The part that makes any rig the most capable is the driver, and the only way to upgrade that part is by seat time.....

[Drahcir495]

I think you should follow mj_lover's advice; Take a break from it. Cooter is on to something, just use it and up grade as time/money allow. No need to have it all perfect and the dream set-up to use it. Part of the fun is building it up. You won't lose the love for the MJ while wheelin' it. As for the locker and gears -install them, use them- when your ready to upgrade, the axle will be that much more appealing for re-sell. That way the loss your going to take will be justified. I got an Idea...build some model trains to clear your head. It aint much, but I hope it helped a bit-Rich

[DirtyComanche]

Hmm, more reasonable responces here.

 

Well, I'll think on it some more. Just gotta do something about the unibody though. Otherwise, I guess I'll just keep going, true enough that the money is already spent.

 

 

Anybody an expert on bastardized unibody repairs? Or should I just be plating it and welding the rusty's kit in - how it should have been done?

 

 

 

Oh yeah, not looking for a box. I like it this way actually. I was going to fix mine, but well, that just didn't work out.

[Pete M]

I think you need to better define what you want in the end. Do you want 37s or do you want something that is reliable? Even a brand new truck can fail in the middle of nowhere, don't start thinking that you're going to build a fail-proof rig just because you use tougher axles. Find yourself a wheelin' buddy by either introducing a friend to the hobby, or finding a local club and start making friends.

For the time being, take a break and get yourself better organized. I could never have done my buildup without using a spreadsheet in excel to map out my plans and keep track of all the details.

I recommend backing off the 37s and go with 33s or *maybe* 35s. I have 33s and have yet to wish I had 37s. Plenty of times I've wished for an engine in better condition, but not bigger tires. Driving skills, good armor and a buddy vehicle are all you truly need to get back home.

An 8.8 will handle the 35s just fine, the Dana 30 can hold it's own if you get some late model XJ shafts with 297s, don't lock it (the posi is fine), and maybe brace it to insure it stays straight if you're really worried about it. I think you'll be quite surprised as to the strength of the Dana 30.

What tire/gear combo do you have your experience with that 4.0? Mine felt tired as all heck with 30" tires and 3.07s. 3.55s perked it right up! Now I have 4.10s and 33s and I bet if I had 4.56s she wouldn't feel so inept.

Jeep on!

--Pete

 

P.S. They unibody is a heck of a lot stronger than you seem to give it credit. That *ain't* a Cherokee. Repair what's broken, strengthen anything you want, but I wouldn't worry too much about it.

[DirtyComanche]

Not thinking I'll build something fail proof, just something that isn't failure-prone. I wheel alone because I like to, sometimes. I just would rather avoid the whole walking out thing.

 

 

I've got 35s now, 37s would just be for when I decide I want bigger. Yes, I'm prone to deciding that something isn't big enough. So, I threw it out there as a potential factor. Realistically that won't be anytime soon, the D30 was just bothering me.

 

 

The 4.0 runs well, actually, and still pulls well. However, it was burning more oil and things were getting a bit rough before I garaged it. I don't neglect it either. That and the odometer read 300000Kms(and change) - which is wrong as the tire size hasn't been stock since the first set, it appears. It didn't exactly have a gentle life either - I'm pretty sure it rarely saw highway.

 

 

 

Well, I think I know what I'll do. So, all is good, or close enough to good.

[hackedmj]

I agree with the guys above, stay with your plan, forget about 37 unless you got big money to spent, A well built rig on 33s is better than a cobbled rig on 37s. I'm building my mj with an 8.8 and a Dana 30 front on 35s, Just got the 8.8 under it tonight.If my D30 breaks an axle, I could really care less, you can change a 30 axle shaft in about 15 minutes with a jack, lug wrench and a 13 millimeter wrench, I don't know why is scares people so much.You'll break more axles with a D44 and 37s than a D30 with 33s. I've run the hard trails at Tellico 40- 50 trips with a 30 front on 33s and never broke an axle. Now get back to work :-D

[DirtyComanche]

I agree with the guys above, stay with your plan, forget about 37 unless you got big money to spent, A well built rig on 33s is better than a cobbled rig on 37s. I'm building my mj with an 8.8 and a Dana 30 front on 35s, Just got the 8.8 under it tonight.If my D30 breaks an axle, I could really care less, you can change a 30 axle shaft in about 15 minutes with a jack, lug wrench and a 13 millimeter wrench, I don't know why is scares people so much.You'll break more axles with a D44 and 37s than a D30 with 33s. I've run the hard trails at Tellico 40- 50 trips with a 30 front on 33s and never broke an axle. Now get back to work :-D

 

 

Only issue is that the avaliabilty of shafts with 297X ujoints is somewhere between zilch and really poor. I hope I can track down a set for a decent price - gotta hit up the pick'n'pull to see if they even have a newer cherokee/tj. Would a ZJ shaft work?

[Pete M]

Toss a mountain bike in the back! That should cut your 3 day walk into a 1 day ride. :D

Jeep on!

--Pete

[DirtyComanche]

Toss a mountain bike in the back! That should cut your 3 day walk into a 1 day ride. :D

Jeep on!

--Pete

 

 

 

I ain't got a bed!

[hackedmj]

I agree with the guys above, stay with your plan, forget about 37 unless you got big money to spent, A well built rig on 33s is better than a cobbled rig on 37s. I'm building my mj with an 8.8 and a Dana 30 front on 35s, Just got the 8.8 under it tonight.If my D30 breaks an axle, I could really care less, you can change a 30 axle shaft in about 15 minutes with a jack, lug wrench and a 13 millimeter wrench, I don't know why is scares people so much.You'll break more axles with a D44 and 37s than a D30 with 33s. I've run the hard trails at Tellico 40- 50 trips with a 30 front on 33s and never broke an axle. Now get back to work :-D

 

 

Only issue is that the avaliabilty of shafts with 297X ujoints is somewhere between zilch and really poor. I hope I can track down a set for a decent price - gotta hit up the pick'n'pull to see if they even have a newer cherokee/tj. Would a ZJ shaft work?

Grand axles will work as long as they're not the cv joint type. Look for older model XJs with ABS, they also have 297s.

[DirtyComanche]

Grand axles will work as long as they're not the cv joint type. Look for older model XJs with ABS, they also have 297s.

 

 

Thanks. That should yeild something.

[Pete M]

Toss a mountain bike in the back! That should cut your 3 day walk into a 1 day ride. :D

Jeep on!

--Pete

 

 

 

I ain't got a bed!

 

That's why I said "back", but I guess there's no "in" at the moment. :D Shouldn't be hard to fab up a holder of some kind. I might make one of my own someday when I get bored.

Jeep on!

--Pete

[DirtyComanche]

Toss a mountain bike in the back! That should cut your 3 day walk into a 1 day ride. :D

Jeep on!

--Pete

 

 

 

I ain't got a bed!

 

That's why I said "back", but I guess there's no "in" at the moment. :D Shouldn't be hard to fab up a holder of some kind. I might make one of my own someday when I get bored.

Jeep on!

--Pete

 

 

Actually, it's a good idea. Well, the whole using it to ride out when you break part is kidna iffy... Anyways, bungee cords and rachet straps are my friend, I'm sure I could make it stick. Are you a rider? I keep debating buying my friend's 04 Norco Six, actually I've had the thing on testride for about a month now... Too many toys that require money :D

[Pete M]

$2000!!!!! I'm not *that* much of a rider. I bought a Mongoose Switchback many, many years ago and I thought it was dang expensive at a measly few hundred. It's positively archaic by today's standards, but somehow still gets me where I'm going. :D

Jeep on!

--Pete

 

P.S. back to the topic at hand, When a project ever feels overwhelming to me, it generally means I haven't broken it down into small enough tasks. Being able to check things off of a list may sound corny now, but it'll become soooooo satisfying later on when you watch that list shrink. :D

[pingpong]

35's on the setup you have is very doable, cause I am running them on just about the same setup :D I went to alloy shafts, cause I got tired of replcaing them. I disagree with what some one posted about not locking the front. Always lock it up, posi's and lsd's are limited traction when you need it. I ended up lincoln locking my rear at Crozet this past weekend, cause I got tired of getting denied on Obstacles.

 

I agree with Pete, if you break your build down into smaller things, it gets satisfying. Long term builds get frustrating, especially when the wifey starts nagging about how much you have spent.

 

BTW my setup, keeps up with rigs with far better setups then I got. I was one of the smaller rigs running the blacks and the reds at Crozet, and I had a blast, but did not hold up the group, and I did not break anything that would keep me from going down the road.

 

 

Patrick

[Pete M]

I went to alloy shafts, cause I got tired of replcaing them.

 

The reason I don't recommend locking a Dana 30 with 35s is longevity. When one of the spinning front tires catches something hard and stops rotating, a posi or open diff will transfer some or most of the engine power to the other side, reducing the shock load that is responsible for lots of broken shaft/joints. For traction purposes the locker is obviously better, but they are very abusive to axles being pushed to their limits.

Jeep on!

--Pete

[DirtyComanche]

Perhaps somebody might be able to shed some light on this? I've seen it mentioned more than once that the MJ unibody is stronger than the XJ. Before the unibody widens towards the back of the cab, is it thicker than an XJ one? I mean this in did they use somewhat heavier sheet which lead to a somewhat larger external dimension? To clarify I mean specifically the area between the LCA mounts and the cab mount and where the unibody widens.

 

 

 

If so, that would explain a bunch of things. If not, I'm pretty certain my unibody is a little bent too ~ too many ditches. It still tracked straight though.

[Pete M]

I don't know the specifics on the materials used, but both of those items you mentioned are reinforced, where-as on the XJ they are not. Every part of the body from the firewall back (except the doors of course) is a different design, so it's not like they even went through the same presses. Remember, you bought a *truck*, not a grocery-gettin' station wagon. :D

Anyone know if the XJ frame is double-walled at all?

Jeep on!

--Pete

[pingpong]

The lca mounts are triangulated, and go up into the fire wall area, and there is more material (metal) on the inside. The cab is connected tto the "frame" in 2 spots beforeit goes to the bed. Then the frame rail gets taller, and a touch wider, on top of that there is the huge "x" under the bed stiffening it up.

 

 

 

Patrick

[DirtyComanche]

Was aware of the major differences. Too bad the FSM frame alignment diagrams are just alignment diagrams, and don't have measurements for much. Then I could know for sure. Although, from the diagram, it does look like it should be the same, disregarding the welded in LCA reinforcements and the cab mount.

 

 

That and it snowed today, so, I'm not lying under a cherokee in a 'yard to see if the uniframe rail is wider.

[mj_lover]