Cooling system upgrades

[CWLONGSHOT]

Today I put some miles on the MJ. Got going early (7AM) and took a trip to my buddies jeep garage on the shore to dismount, mount and balance a couple sets of tires. From there across the state to drop half of them off at another buddies place. Then back to the homestead. Got home about 4PM. I got out of the MJ and was greeted with a nasty growling rattle. Seems my water pumps bearings are going, going soon to be GONE! :headpop: :headpop: :headpop:

I have wanted to upgrade my pressure bottle with one that mechanic buddie recommended to me. It's a HOWE Surge tank. I haven't liked the temps mine has been running for some time. Back a couple years ago I installed this pump, a new heater core, 3 core radiator, 180 T-stat and hoses. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HRE-3424/ You will only need to drill out one fitting from the .060 opening to casting diameter. (approx 5/8") and find room for a cheap dorman #603-001 overflow bottle. You also get a regular rad cap!! It's smaller tank than the factory bottle so it easily fits in stock location. My friend has been running his for about 6mo and his XJ. He says has never run so constant as far as temperatures. You should know, he is a stickler for factory parts, so his just admitting there was something better then the troublesome factory pressure bottle was something for sure. But after having numerous factory replacements fail he began looking for a better bottle. He discovered the Howe and LOVES IT!! Good enough for me! So I have one on order.

 

Now for the water pump. back then, I purchased a parts store pump. This time I want a better, more efficient HI FLO pump. So I went for this one. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/GMB-110-1080P/ I wanted the Flo-Kooler pump but its not offered for the renix era 4.0. At least its not "recommended" for some reason... :dunno: I have already "massaged" the water neck for better flow and ordered a hi-flo 180 thermostat to go in it. My mechanic also mentioned that the Stant thermostats do not properly fit the factory water neck!! They either bind the housing limiting the movement or touch and allow for electrolysis so the T-stat disintegrates!!! I'm also gonna change all the fittings, radiator and heater hoses at the same time.

 

SO, with some luck, I will have all the parts in a couple days and as long as the weather accomidates, get everything installed for a wheeling trip on the 31st!! Otherwise I'll have to wheel the TJ.. OH DARN :rotf: :rotf: It's a really easy trail, so it kinda silly to drive the TJ.

 

As always, pics of the whole process will follow. Coments always welcome and encouraged.

 

CW

[500 MJ]

CW,

 

I'm having issues right now with my '90 MJ's water pump. Its good enough to drive around town now, but I don't want to take it any farther than that.

 

I just threw some serious coin at a Hesco water pump. http://www.hesco.us/shop.asp?action=det ... catId=7967

 

Its on its way right now, hopefully get it in sometime next week. I'm hoping it'll be worth all the effort and cash I'm putting forth for it. I'll let you know what I think about it.

 

- Brent

[CWLONGSHOT]

The NAPA was closed today, so ordering/picking up the parts will have to wait till Monday. BUT, It warmed up enough so I was able to get everything dis-assembled and ready for the new parts to go in.

 

 

One casualty... my shroud. FREAKIN' THING IS ALWAYS I THE WAY!! :headpop: I also found the idler, just to the right of the A/C idler is also noisy. Hopefully this is not a dealer part, but I fear it is. OH well, not a huge deal as its easy to swap at a later date if it doesn't come in i time.

 

I opened up the water neck with a air grinder in about ten minutes!

 

BEFORE:

 

 

AFTER:

 

 

Everything came out easily sans that shroud. :doh: :wall: :doh: :wall:

 

Brian

[HOrnbrod]

I also found the idler, just to the right of the A/C idler is also noisy. Hopefully this is not a dealer part, but I fear it is.Brian

 

Fastenal has the idler puller bearings ($2.08/ea) and there's a slew of them on Fleabay too. Just do a search for 6203-2RS, common bearing. Just press a new one in. To be sure of the p/n first use some 0000 steel wool on the idler pulley bearing face and the p/n should be visible. Just to eliminate any Jeep "inconsistancies".

:cheers:

[CWLONGSHOT]

TANKS for the tip MAN!!! :bowdown: :bowdown:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0141483867

 

I just ordered a couple!!!

 

This can be changed when they arrive, I can live with the old one till then..

 

CW

[ratrapp]

i don't know about the hesco w/p.i bought one and it didn't last a year.even the cheap advance auto pump lasted 4-5 years.i got the hesco pump,hesco high flow t-stat housing and 180 t-stat.the t-stat didn't last 6 months before it stuck on the way home from work.i replaced it with a good mopar t-stat.the temp gauge no longer flucuates.the water pump is seeping but i haven't changed it yet.you'd think for what they cost they would last longer.hesco does state none of those parts have any warranty as they are high performance.

[CWLONGSHOT]

I agree, the hi-dollar, high flo pumps seem not so worth it. I hear many mixed reviews, for more than double the cost, almost three times in some cases. I just don't see it. I decided to buy a NEW pump and NAPA's is even made in the USA!!

 

On the way home tonight I stopped at the local NAPA. I picked up a new USA made pump, A REAL 13# rad cap, a bottle of Indian head cement, a bottle of green juice and some gaskets.

 

Tomorrow, I'll get the pump in and the plastic bottle out. Then its just a wait for the aluminum bottle, overflow bottle and hi-flo Mopar stat.

 

Stay tuned...

 

CW

[CWLONGSHOT]

 

I got the water pump and the PS brackets back in tonight. I am still missing the T-Stat, pressure bottle and overflow tank so I cannot finish, but its moving along nicely!!!

It shouldn't take but a hour to finish this up and I'll be ready for Sunday!!

Poor me, guess I am driving the TJ a couple more days... I'm glad I still have the AT's on it!!! The thing drives like a sports car with the Lil 33's!!

 

CW

[CWLONGSHOT]

Parts just arrived and I have to leave for a meeting!! GRRR

 

I gotta get some fittings I forgot about anyhow...

 

here is some pics...

 

 

Tomorrow night.. in the cold.. I'll be out there installing this...

 

CW

[CWLONGSHOT]

I ran back to NAPA on the way home and picked up the hose barbs and hose I needed. A few minutes with some Teflon tape and I had the tank ready to install.

 

 

I had a couple big hose clamps and I grabbed a piece of 2" "C" channel. It worked perfectly to hold the tank at 90 degrees while being very firm.

 

 

A few more minutes routing the hose to the overflow tank and it was complete.

 

 

The overflow tank fit perfectly beside the air box after I moved the ballast resistor and vacuum fitting a bit toward the firewall.

 

 

I also received the replacement bearings from EBay... five minutes and the old one was pressed out and the new one in!!

 

 

The temprature is now running right at 180. (Same as the stat) The heat is a bit cooler, bit plenty warm.

 

 

One problem..... I got a bit of a leak at the water neck... SO the freaking thing comes apart again.... :fs1: :fs1: :fs1: :wall: :wall:

 

Saturday is my next available time.. hope its warm...

 

CW

[CWLONGSHOT]

I did end up going back out there tonight... Threw in the heater and it was rite cozy!!

 

I decided to throw in a sealer as I noticed the radiator itself was leaking a bit. Just a small leak, but a leak just the same. My heat at the water neck was just a drip, but as the pressure built and the fan pushed it around, it looked bad.

 

Sealer seems to have worked at least slowed it to a tiny stain.

 

Also noticed that my math sux.... the factory gage goes from 100 to 260 with 210 straight up. (Bear with me here) that's 90 degrees from 100-210 so the mark I was calling 180 is really only 145. Now add 15 more for the 1/3 past the center mark and we get 160 degrees. That's 20 under the 180 that the stat is... seems the gage IS way off as its IS rock steady where it sits.

 

Also, my upper rad hose doesn't even get firm... OR overly hot!! SO, my guess is I have a air bubble. Squeezing the hose doesn't seem to move any fluids. Comparing the heater hose with the upper rad hose isn't close in temps. I ran it tonight for most of an hour idle and revving to 2000 and 3000 rpms and held there for a couple minutes multiple times.

 

Hopefully it will relieve itself as it cools tonight, I filled the overflo bottle to near full. I'll check it and run it a bit tomarrow.

 

CW

[Drahcir495]

CW

Well done CW ~ that looks great.. I could save a few bucks if you had done this sooner :brows:

[LEAD_NOT_FOLLOW]

i don't know about the hesco w/p.i bought one and it didn't last a year.even the cheap advance auto pump lasted 4-5 years.i got the hesco pump,hesco high flow t-stat housing and 180 t-stat.the t-stat didn't last 6 months before it stuck on the way home from work.i replaced it with a good mopar t-stat.the temp gauge no longer flucuates.the water pump is seeping but i haven't changed it yet.you'd think for what they cost they would last longer.hesco does state none of those parts have any warranty as they are high performance.

I've been very happy with no issues at all with my Hesco pump. This is the first I've heard of someone saying they have not had good luck with them...

[CWLONGSHOT]

I scanned over the forums before deciding against the HI-FLO pumps. I found a few dis-satisfied people, more that said that after the fact they didn't feel the costs outweighed the benefits. So I went with a NEW replacement pump from NAPA.

 

When I got out to the truck this AM, the overflow was empty, (I 3/4 filled it last night when hot)so the system IS working.

 

I took it for a short ride to get more Kerosene for the heater, it was fine, but never got above the revised 160 degrees.

 

I pulled the upper hose off while it was warm and it was indeed empty... There was a amount in the water neck on top of the T stat. I added fluid to the upper hose and it immediately came out of the water neck.. so the T stat is indeed open. then I removed the upper heater hose where it enters the pressure bottle and again filled or tried to add more fluid. I got a bit in, but not too much. I "burped" the upper rad hose at the same time and was able to add even a bit more. I just filled the overflow tank again.

 

 

SO its now a waiting game to see what gets sucked into the system, then refill and repeat. Only potential problem I cam see is if the new T stat is stuck open...

 

CW

[CWLONGSHOT]

I have given it about two hours to cool, time to go see what happened...

 

Just checked it out... nothing was "sucked" back into the block/radiator this time... I know its got room as the upper hose was still soft. SO, I jumped in for a cruse.. need fuel anyhow. Put about 25 miles on it and that freakin' hose is still not full... or hot...and the overflow bottle is full near the top. So some was pushed into it on the free way. The temp never moved more than the thickness of the needle. No overheating, heat adequate, runs smooth and quiet.

 

Maybe, I'm over thinking and stressing on nothing.. what do you think??

 

CW

[Ironwolf]

Has anybody went to an electric cooling fan? I'm looking into it for efficiency.

[Drahcir495]

I also found the idler, just to the right of the A/C idler is also noisy. Hopefully this is not a dealer part, but I fear it is.Brian

 

Fastenal has the idler puller bearings ($2.08/ea) and there's a slew of them on Fleabay too. Just do a search for 6203-2RS, common bearing. Just press a new one in. To be sure of the p/n first use some 0000 steel wool on the idler pulley bearing face and the p/n should be visible. Just to eliminate any Jeep "inconsistancies".

:cheers:

I just picked the bearing up at Napa - p#6203-2RSJ I believe, for 12 bucks. So I am sure you can get them at most part stores -cheaper too. I will double check the p/n on the pulley. Thank you hornbrod & CW :clapping:

[CWLONGSHOT]

Has anybody went to an electric cooling fan? I'm looking into it for efficiency.

 

I have read mixed reviews. I am running the stock A/C fan as a backup to the stock clutch fan.

 

I have repeatedly read that the Ford Taurus fan works well, but I have not tried it. Don't really think the work will reap enough rewards to be worthwhile.

 

CW

[HOrnbrod]

Has anybody went to an electric cooling fan? I'm looking into it for efficiency.

 

I did this almost a couple of years ago. If you take your time and do it right, it works very well. Mechanical fans have gone the way of the dinosaur. :D Gave me a bit more MPG too.

 

http://www.comancheclub.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=8342&p=100730&hilit=electric+fan#p100730

[Ironwolf]

I have given it about two hours to cool, time to go see what happened...

 

Just checked it out... nothing was "sucked" back into the block/radiator this time... I know its got room as the upper hose was still soft. SO, I jumped in for a cruse.. need fuel anyhow. Put about 25 miles on it and that freakin' hose is still not full... or hot...and the overflow bottle is full near the top. So some was pushed into it on the free way. The temp never moved more than the thickness of the needle. No overheating, heat adequate, runs smooth and quiet.

 

Maybe, I'm over thinking and stressing on nothing.. what do you think??

 

CW

 

 

Try actually probing the hose or block. On the cheap, you can tape a thermometer to the radiator hose or the super cool surge tank. Ideally you want to run ~190 for best performance overall. This way you won't have to be guessing what the lines mean on the gauge.

[CWLONGSHOT]

UPDATE:

Yesterday on the way to work I noticed a puff or two of steam from under the hood at a light... Got to work, popped the hood and found my leak had returned and was even a bit faster.... :headpop: :headpop:

 

SO as I am on call this week, I have today off so I pulled off the water neck to reseal and guess what!?!?!

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

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. THE FREAKIN' STAT SLIPPED during the last install!!! :fs1: Resulting in kinda like no stat as some of the fluid bypassed the stat. The stat was not damaged and its all back together. WITH A FIRM UPPER HOSE!!!! :banana: Time for a road test, but I think its fine as no leaks detected and the temp warmed up nicely. Same temps, but now I can see when the stat opens as the temp climbs and then drops to just above that middle hash mark. Just as before.

 

Guess I WASN'T over thinking it after all!!! :redX: :shake:

 

CW

[maddzz1]

My temp gauge rides right about where yours is. I was thinking my stat moved during the install since I didnt remove/loosen the serp belt. I have a 190* stat. But if yours is still running around the 160* mark on the gauge after fixing the stat I will call it good and leave it alone. Its been like this for a year now, I like to take my time. :D

[CWLONGSHOT]

My temp gauge rides right about where yours is. I was thinking my stat moved during the install since I didn't remove/loosen the serp belt. I have a 190* stat. But if yours is still running around the 160* mark on the gauge after fixing the stat I will call it good and leave it alone. Its been like this for a year now, I like to take my time. :D

 

The tell tale thing with mine was the leak. I knew if it shifted it would cause a leak, but thought I had secured it before tightening. . . so I figured it was caused by the lack of a good coat of indian head cement on the block. It was so freaking cold it simply wouldn't stick to the block!!! This time I warmed the cement and engine before repairing.

 

CW