Hawk Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 I'm interested in what you'll be doing for the front suspension and steering. I've always wanted to see IFS on a 2wd MJ. You said something about it needing to run on just gasoline, right? What are the restrictions on what kind of gasoline? I'm guessing a methanol injection kit would be off limits? What kind of compression ratio do you have in mind for this beast? Do you have to run it with a bed on it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WahooSteeler Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 please tell me why Chevrolet used them for YEARS behind a 305SBC in a camaro? and why did Ford use them in the Mustang? i'm not tryin to pick a fight, but i know from experience the ones in mustangs its kinda just "what they do" they all kill 2nd gear or others... the one i tore down was shredded to pieces. just cause they DID it... doesn't make it right i don't know its possible chevy used a different model of it that is mo-better-er I had an 86 1/2 Iroc with the 305 4BBL. Damn I loved that car. A true chick magnet. And I think I put more miles than not on it with the breather cover flipped over just to hear that cool sound of it sucking all that air while raking the $#!& out of those gears! But I digress down memory lane. You say, "uh, 86 and A HALF? No such thing." Oh, but true it is. GM dealers were turning in to their own AAMCO shops with seemingly non-stop replacement of those trannies, so mid year 86 production they swithced to the excellent Getrag german 5 speed. I had a buddy that had the 86 Firebird the same time I had my car and he went through 3 T5's before they put a Getrag in his. He never had a problem thereafter. I was 19 or 20 when I got mine, so needless to say I was not easy on it. Never had a problem. I know this because when I ordered my car it was delayed because of this and my dealer told me it was referred to as an 86 1/2 internally because of the new trans setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 I had an 85 1/2 Escort way back when. Last hurrah for the carbed engine. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WahooSteeler Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 I had an 85 1/2 Escort way back when. Last hurrah for the carbed engine. :D Yup, 3 mos after I picked 86 the 87's were hitting showrooms, all with TPI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worlds Fastest Comanche Posted October 15, 2008 Author Share Posted October 15, 2008 I'm interested in what you'll be doing for the front suspension and steering. I've always wanted to see IFS on a 2wd MJ.You said something about it needing to run on just gasoline, right? What are the restrictions on what kind of gasoline? I'm guessing a methanol injection kit would be off limits? What kind of compression ratio do you have in mind for this beast? Do you have to run it with a bed on it? We will use a post 91 xj 2wd front axle. The early ones had screwed up geometry. 2001 wj brakes and similar year brake booster and master cylinder. We thought aout putting a Mustang II front suspension kit in, but the XJ axle is eaiser. There are many mustang II suspension kits for street rods that could be put into an MJ. We only have to go in a straight line, so handling is not super important. You can run Racing gas, No other fuels are allowed in this class. We will be running about 11:1. You do have to run a bed and all stock body panels and bumpers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reson46 Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 We will use a post 91 xj 2wd front axle. The early ones had screwed up geometry. What are the differences? Willy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worlds Fastest Comanche Posted October 15, 2008 Author Share Posted October 15, 2008 There is a book called "Common sense not required" by Evan Boberg. he was an engineer with AMC then Chrysler. He worked alot on the XJ suspension, they had some Chief engineer who wanted the Cherokee to steer easy. they ended up with 11deg of caster, when it should only have about 4. If you want the detail, you can probably get the book used on amazon cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worlds Fastest Comanche Posted October 17, 2008 Author Share Posted October 17, 2008 Got a big envelope from the Chrysler archives today, it had 6 xerox copies of photos of the 86 Bonneville truck. they were poor quality and black and white. From a previous conversation with the Chrysler historian, i know that hte truck was red with white lettering. It has a big "140" on the doors. On the upper side of the bed it says "Jeep Comanche" on both sides. It has a racing stripe down low near the rockers, the stripe is broken near the front of the doors and it has "LSR2" in white letters the same height as the stripe. I assume that LSR2 stands for Land Speed Record #2. I wonder if there was a LSR1? Was it a truck, or maybe an Eagle product. When i spoke to the Historian eariler, i had requested to see the truck, in the letter wirh the pictures he said that i could come and look at it and gave me the contact. I will probably head over next Friday with my son. It is stored in a building with 300 other "signifigant" chrysler vehicles. Should be a great trip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfpdm Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 When i spoke to the Historian eariler, i had requested to see the truck, in the letter wirh the pictures he said that i could come and look at it and gave me the contact. I will probably head over next Friday with my son. It is stored in a building with 300 other "signifigant" chrysler vehicles. Should be a great trip They will probably not let you take a camera in, but if they do, take some pics and post them up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 Keep me posted on when you're going to the "museum". I'd like to meet you there. :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worlds Fastest Comanche Posted October 26, 2008 Author Share Posted October 26, 2008 A couple of notes, I got a copy of the press release of the records the 1986 Comanche set. One of them was a standing Quarter mile in 16.9 seconds. and of course the other one was the Flying mile at 141mph. The Comanche did have a run at 144 mph. If i run some numbers on this , it tells me that the truck had to have around 145 RWhp to do the quarter mile time stated. This assunes a 3,500 LB weight. I know the curb weight is less than that, but a roll cage was added and a fire supression system. You also have to add the weight of the driver. So if you make the assumption that the truck has had the same horsepower when it made the flying mile run, then you can figure a drag factor. So if you know the spped you want to go, and you know the drag factor, you can come up with the amount of horsepower you need. So doing all that, i came up with a figure of 350 RWhp to go 185mph ( one mile per hour over the current record) So it looks like the engine will have to dyno out at about 400hp if i want to set the record. That's a lot to ask a 4.3L inline 6 The other thing was that people have been telling me to see "The World Fastest Indian", Finally got a copy and saw it last night, I would recomend it, gives you a good feeling of Bonneville, and it also shows wahat you can do if you put your mind to somthing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejndssn Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 When you guys go to the museum take lots of pix :drool: to bad you couldnt stroke it to a 4.5 or larger to achieve that kind of power :cheers: good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoloCamo Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 So if you know the spped you want to go, and you know the drag factor, you can come up with the amount of horsepower you need. So doing all that, i came up with a figure of 350 RWhp to go 185mph ( one mile per hour over the current record) So it looks like the engine will have to dyno out at about 400hp if i want to set the record. I'm still doubting, even at 400 crank hp, that our brick will be able to hit 186mph. When you consider the fact that a 430ish hp C6 Corvette tops out at about 185. Obviously, the aerodynamics favor the C6 majorly in comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoloCamo Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 So if you know the spped you want to go, and you know the drag factor, you can come up with the amount of horsepower you need. So doing all that, i came up with a figure of 350 RWhp to go 185mph ( one mile per hour over the current record) So it looks like the engine will have to dyno out at about 400hp if i want to set the record. I'm still doubting, even at 400 crank hp, that our brick will be able to hit 186mph. When you consider the fact that a 430ish hp C6 Corvette tops out at about 185. Obviously, the aerodynamics favor the C6 majorly in comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 Is that a stock C6? Does it run out of gearing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 Is that a stock C6? Does it run out of gearing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoloCamo Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 Is that a stock C6? Does it run out of gearing? Nope, Chevy claims it's drag limited to 186mph. Put it this way.... C6 - 186mph drag limited - 430hp 6.2L V8 Z06 - 198mph drag limited - 505hp 7.0L V8 ZR1 - 205mph drag limited - 638hp 6.2L Supercharged V8 It takes a lot to get up there, and all of these cars are far more aerodynamic than you can ever make a comanche. Another good example here is the RAM SRT-10...although it weighs in at 5,000lbs, it has a V10 pushing out 500hp/525ftlbs of torque ripped right out of the viper. It's top speed? Roughly 155mph. Weight means nothing on top-speed, it's just raw power and aerodynamics after 100mph. Drag plays a huge role, especially when you consider what you are trying to do here, and thus my reasoning behind being debby downer in this case. I just don't see how a N/A 4.3L I6 in a comanche is going to push out anywhere near the power to attain 186mph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoloCamo Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 Is that a stock C6? Does it run out of gearing? Nope, Chevy claims it's drag limited to 186mph. Put it this way.... C6 - 186mph drag limited - 430hp 6.2L V8 Z06 - 198mph drag limited - 505hp 7.0L V8 ZR1 - 205mph drag limited - 638hp 6.2L Supercharged V8 It takes a lot to get up there, and all of these cars are far more aerodynamic than you can ever make a comanche. Another good example here is the RAM SRT-10...although it weighs in at 5,000lbs, it has a V10 pushing out 500hp/525ftlbs of torque ripped right out of the viper. It's top speed? Roughly 155mph. Weight means nothing on top-speed, it's just raw power and aerodynamics after 100mph. Drag plays a huge role, especially when you consider what you are trying to do here, and thus my reasoning behind being debby downer in this case. I just don't see how a N/A 4.3L I6 in a comanche is going to push out anywhere near the power to attain 186mph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redramman Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 Banks later did a Dodge Dakota with a Cummins I-6 5.9 Diesel which also set a record on the salt flats. As for fastest MJ I'm thinking super charged,turbocharged with intercooler,rpm cam,and remove tailgate,or maybe a Nascar style tonue cover :yes: you could mount the turbo under bed and run it off exhaust pipe and air intake tubes back to engine...better yet run 2 turbos off duals from headers, the kind with 3cyl to one collector,and 3cyl to another collector. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redramman Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 Banks later did a Dodge Dakota with a Cummins I-6 5.9 Diesel which also set a record on the salt flats. As for fastest MJ I'm thinking super charged,turbocharged with intercooler,rpm cam,and remove tailgate,or maybe a Nascar style tonue cover :yes: you could mount the turbo under bed and run it off exhaust pipe and air intake tubes back to engine...better yet run 2 turbos off duals from headers, the kind with 3cyl to one collector,and 3cyl to another collector. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawk Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 Could the radiator be shortened, in either direction, to incorporate a ram-air style scoop behind the grille? I'm guessing a hood scoop would cause too much drag, and violate the 'stock body panels' rule. You sound knowledgeable on all this, I may be hitting you up for info as I progress on my own project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvusse Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 If you get a custom radiator, you can probably do with a shorter one, but go deeper (thicker) at the same time to make up for it. At high speeds, air flow through the radiator should be no problem, but at high rpm the engine will also generate a LOT of heat. Might want to install an extra oil cooler and trannie cooler in there as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worlds Fastest Comanche Posted November 7, 2008 Author Share Posted November 7, 2008 You are making assumptions that the rated HP of a Corvette motor is available at the rear wheels. When you Dyno a motor, it does not have a fan, or alternator, or power steering pump. You also have transmission loses of at least 20%. The GMC/ Banks S15 went 183.9 MPH with a 4.3 L motor. The also ran a 5.0L motor in the same car in 1989 and went 198mph. In 1990 they returned to the salt with a different truck and went 210mph on a one way pass. If you read the press releases on this, the qouthe Banks engineering as saying the 1990 motor had a little over 500HP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
project88mj Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 here you go too bad you couldnt put an AMC 401 in there :clapping: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoloCamo Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 You are making assumptions that the rated HP of a Corvette motor is available at the rear wheels. When you Dyno a motor, it does not have a fan, or alternator, or power steering pump. You also have transmission loses of at least 20%. The GMC/ Banks S15 went 183.9 MPH with a 4.3 L motor. The also ran a 5.0L motor in the same car in 1989 and went 198mph. In 1990 they returned to the salt with a different truck and went 210mph on a one way pass. If you read the press releases on this, the qouthe Banks engineering as saying the 1990 motor had a little over 500HP. Oh I fully understand the difference between wheel hp and hp at the crank. Do you have a link to the press releases? I'm sorry, I just really have a hard time believing any of it. When a Ferrari Enzo tops out at about 215mph with well over 600hp with a much larger motor, and an amazingly more aerodynamic body (albeit much lower too)...I just don't see how a 1990 brick with 500hp is doing 210mph. :hmm: I mean, even the Corvette ZR1, with 638hp at the crank off of a Supercharged 6.2L v8...it's still making well over 500hp at the wheels and it's drag limited to 205mph. So, by what you claim, Banks has somehow engineered, (in 1990 no less) a brick that can go 210mph with roughly 500hp at the wheels through a 5.0 . I'm not being skeptical to bust your balls...it's just that all I've learned over my years seems to disagree with the claims. :dunno: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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