DirtyComanche Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 I created this more for my own amusement and notes. Maybe it'll be useful to somebody though. Anyways, the plan: Front: Narrow a Ford HPD44 (67") to Grand Wagoneer width (61") and run Grand Wagoneer axle shafts, ford knuckles (high steer) and GW/Chevy outers for the 6 bolt pattern. Stuff with 4.56 gears, and weld the sucker up. Bracketry will be essentially a copy of the stock D30 stuff, except everything will actually be of a decent wall size. Rear: Isuzu 12B (59"~). Conveniently has a factory PowerBrute LSD and 4.56 gears, disk brakes, etc. The only quirk that bothers me as of now is that I have no clue what the U-joint for the driveshaft actually is. It might get tricky. Spring perches go on at a 42" centre-centre. Shock mounts might be retarded. The donor waggy D44: Image Not Found Look at that bute, even had a ranchero shock! Sadly the stock steering is a bit f'd. I might pick up another stock set though just as it will be easier to run it for now. And the Isuzu 12B (and driveshaft peice): Image Not Found I'll add to this once I've actually done some real work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bounty Hunter Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 Similar to my current plan for my YJ, I've already got the axles but my rear is an Isuzu D44. Why'd you choose that 'Zu rear axle? Why the ford knuckles in the front? I've already got my DS flattop from a Chevy, and the PS is a flattop from a '73-'75 Waggy that'll need milled, drilled, and tapped for the highsteer arm. I'll be stuffing in 5.38 with spools, or a combination of spool/mini-spool/lincoln locker to be determined. My Waggy front axle is a disconnect, so I can disconnect the DS axleshaft with an aircraft cable from the cab. Add lockouts on top of that and it'll be have well onroad. Narrowing a ford axle seems like a lot of trouble for HP, do you need the extra pinion height or strength? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyComanche Posted June 11, 2006 Author Share Posted June 11, 2006 The 12B is probably as strong as a D60. Disk brakes, drop out third, 4.56s, and it was avaliable for cheap. Well, the ford knuckles are probably chevy ones actually. They're flat top and already milled. Or maybe they are ford? Don't really know the history of them, don't really care. Ford knuckles may be weaker, but I don't think it's actually a huge deal. Oh, I'll point out I actually haven't even seen them yet, my buddy is supposed to run them over sometime soon. And why HP? Why not? I got the housing cheap (not pictured, yet). I already would have to regear an axle, so it might as well be the better one. And I'd rather my driveshaft didn't act as a LCA skid. That and I was most likely going to cut the knuckles off and change the caster anyways. Also, it's a learning experience. Maybe it won't work out, but w/e. I can always get another HPD44 housing. Oh yeah, on road manners are something I've given up on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bounty Hunter Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 I've seen a ton of those axles in the yards, passed them over looking for my D44. Didn't know they may have 4.56 factory. Is there any aftermarket support like gearsets and diffs for them? I know some 'Zu stuff is pretty oddball with little aftermarket support. Keep us updated on the project. I've already collected two sets of rims for the switch to 6-lug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooter Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 Front housing narrowing is cake. (well, cake and sweat) Here is an old write-up, I did one for my CJ6, and it really isn't rocket science. BB's writeup on a 1/2 ton Ford Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyComanche Posted June 11, 2006 Author Share Posted June 11, 2006 Well, as long as you're happy with the choice of 4.56 or 4.77ish (rare) stock, and 5.29 aftermarket, you're good to go. I wanted 4.56 so it worked for me. There's an ARB avaliable for the axle too. But yeah, I'm not spendy. There's probably chromos out there too, or you could just get them made... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bounty Hunter Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 Not spendy here either, got a total of $200 into the D30 and 8.8 w/4.10 that'll be going in the MJ this week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pingpong Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 Matt at Independent4x has a bunch of the 5.29 gears for the 12b isuzu. Axle strenght is similar to the d60 in strength. Also everyone passes them up, making them cheap and easy to get. Just truss the hell out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyComanche Posted June 15, 2006 Author Share Posted June 15, 2006 Well, I'm busy with finals and $#!&... but I did managed to do something! From this: Image Not Found To this: Image Not Found Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stumpy Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 nice!...black goes with anything..lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyComanche Posted June 15, 2006 Author Share Posted June 15, 2006 Well, my AR-767s were black, and I really liked the look of the truck. And the chrome on those rims was f'd anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyComanche Posted June 17, 2006 Author Share Posted June 17, 2006 Now I'm toying with front suspension ideas... My current setup is a Rusty's LA (radius arm) kit, but I'm only really using the arms. They are alright, although I will admit I don't like the construction/design of them. Actually, I think they're plain stupid. They use a threaded joint at the body side without a jam nut. The threads are kept greased (hopefully) by a boot. They used this to make up for the pathetic flex that the stock style rubber LCA bushings give. The axle end bushings are also stock style, and the UCA ones blew up after about a half hour... (In fairness, they were probably as old as the truck) They are actually .225 wall 2" DOM though. Good steel. Pic: Image Not Found Anyway, since I'm building a new front axle anyways, I have the oppertunity to do away with all this crap. But, it's a little bit of time/cost vs reward situation. Now, the questions. Should I run a radius arm setup if I'm going to be redoing this crap? Or should I be looking at trying to do a three-link with panhard? If I was to run a radius arm setup, would it be acceptable to run one with only one UCA (say on the passenger side) to control caster? I've heard of doing this before, as it'll prevent binding and from putting so much stress on the housing. Obviously my material selection will have to compensate for the relative strength difference between running two UCAs. More on that. Lastly is my material selection. Obviously if you're a do-gooder you'd order up some DOM. However, I couldn't be bothered. Unless I recycle my current steel. If I was to run a radius arm like setup, I would bend the links slightly for clearance. This leads me to feel I'd like to use pipe. Besides, it's cheap. Sorta. 1.5" sch80 would probably do fine, eh? Any chance I can thread the end of it for a joint easily? (If you run the numbers on A-53, there sch80 is actually going to be bloody strong...) Oh, one more thing. How the f' do you calculate antisquat/dive, roll centre, etc with a 3-link? Is it essentially the same as a 4-link? (If so, I know how to decently) (If none of this makes any sense, sorry) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted June 17, 2006 Share Posted June 17, 2006 Since you're asking a tech question, you might want to put it in the Tech forum, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyComanche Posted June 17, 2006 Author Share Posted June 17, 2006 Nope. It's just going to go here along with all the other crap associated with this. If nobody answers, it's no big deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bounty Hunter Posted June 17, 2006 Share Posted June 17, 2006 How'd you prep the chrome for paint? I need to do the same thing to a set of wheels. Anybody else have recommendations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyComanche Posted June 17, 2006 Author Share Posted June 17, 2006 Hit it with a flap disk. I made sure it was nice and rough. And clean. Then primer (high zinc) and finish coat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pingpong Posted June 18, 2006 Share Posted June 18, 2006 OK. I know 2 ppl running custom 3links. They both used 21/4 x 3/8 DOM for their links, with Johnyy joints on the frame end and YJ bushings on the axle end. Their only complaint was the antisquat when going in reverse. Also you are suppose to put the 3 link on the pumpkin side. I think a radias arm setup like you have is fine if you put a better joint on the frame end. Your other option is to use your lowers and make a parrallel 4link with panhard rod. They give great flex, and axle stability, as well as offer killer flex, and very lil caster change in the suspension travel Now... as for building links out of poo pipe :eek: Sch 80 is strong, but nowhere near as strong as DOM. You might be able to compensate for the strength difference by going with thicker wall stuff, but I still think there are weakness's with your plan. Build it, wheel it, break it :popcorn: we wil all be here to listen to you whine when its al said and broken ;) As for calculating al those fancy numbers :dunno: I know there are programs out there that do it for you :smart: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyComanche Posted June 18, 2006 Author Share Posted June 18, 2006 Most people seem to run 2"x.188" DOM for their links. Which means the sch80 would be pushing it. Sch160 would do it though. Oh, it's not for poop. It's structeral steel. It's as strong as HREW/CREW. Regardless of what people tell you, it is rated for deformation/tensile strength. But, I'm going to reuse the steel I've got, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pingpong Posted June 18, 2006 Share Posted June 18, 2006 all the same it should be interesting. Like I said I can only go buy what I have seen the guys in My club build their links out of :brows: There also never has been a link failure in the club yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyComanche Posted June 21, 2006 Author Share Posted June 21, 2006 Well, as an update, looks like I'm going to be pretty much starting over. The rusty's LAs seem to be sold. Hell, maybe I should just leaf the front of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pingpong Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 I am thinking of doing that myself :brows: Just remember if you do the shackle rerversal you will need a long spline driveshaft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyComanche Posted July 6, 2006 Author Share Posted July 6, 2006 Well, today while at work, I had an epithany (or something). I'm going to run leafs in the front, and the waggy LPD44. Leafs rear, isuzu 12B, yadda yadda. Basically, make it work as fast as possible. Then I can narrow my HP axle at my leasure, and build a proper front suspension. First issue is I don't have a 4.56 gearset for a LPD44. Working on that. Secondly, I have no clue what leaves to run up front. BrettM used Waggy LIFT leaves, and came out with 8" or something. However, I don't remember what lift the leaves were supposed to give... I know how I'll build the front crossmember though. The leaf mounts at the back end are making me think though. I'll have to make them bolt to my unibody bracing (which has nuts welded into it to bolt things to). It might be a little odd though. Oh yeah, and I'll be running the shackles in the front. Screw the flip. That and I finially pulled my crossmember yesterday, and found my tranny mount was in two clean peices. I'm not sure on what my workaround on that will be just yet. Thinking, thinking, but never doing. And there's the debate; run my spool in the front or not? :nanner: Probably not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyComanche Posted July 6, 2006 Author Share Posted July 6, 2006 Wait, BrettM ran YJ 3.5" lift leaves. Waggys will give me about 6". Looks like I'm going to pick'n'pull... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feerocknok Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 One thing about running leaves backwards though is pinion angle. I had my rear Toyota leaves in front, and reversed for a better approach angle. The pinion went perfectly level with the ground, not nearly at the T-Case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyComanche Posted July 6, 2006 Author Share Posted July 6, 2006 Doesn't matter, I'm building the perches anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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