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Now I have a coil spring question.


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Only true way to combat this would be to get your actual part number somehow and let us know as we can change the arch before shipping if needed.  As many of you know our springs for the Comanche are built in the USA and the highest quality you can buy so please don't think they were built wrong as the factor in height is simply related to what spring your vehicle came with from the factory.

 

Hope this clears up the reason why some people bump up just a bit while others go up 3" with the same spring and if you have any questions feel free to email or call us.

Respectfully, Joe, don't you think it would be nice to warn customers that you are supplying only one of what you say were three variants of the factory spring? The factory service manual lists only two ride heights, one for 2WD and one an inch taller for 4WD. It may be that the long wheelbase chassis weighs more than the shortbed, so maybe the longbed trucks get stiffer springs (or more arch) to compensate for the additional weight. I don't know.

 

What I do know is that if I bought a set of new springs that are supposed to replace factory stock springs and ended up 2" or 3" higher than stock I would be very, VERY unhappy. I would, as I posted above, be sending them back to you and I would expect you to cover my shipping both ways, since IMHO they would not be as advertised.

 

Also, as of June 1986, the date of my factory MJ manuals, there were five rear spring part numbers, not three. It wouldn't surprise me at all if more were added in later years, considering that for model year 1986 there was no shortbed, only the longbed.

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For 1991 five different 4-leaf springs and one 5-leaf spring were offered. The parts manuals do not indicate the free arch of each but I'm betting they were all different.

 

4                 SPRING ASSEMBLY ***
5200 6448 2                 Std. Duty, 4 Leaf, Coded RB
5200 6444 2                 Std. Duty, 4 Leaf, Coded RD
5200 6446 2                 Std. Duty, 4 Leaf, Coded RE
5200 6445 2                 Std. Duty, 4 Leaf, Coded RF
5200 6447 2                 Std. Duty, 4 Leaf, Coded RG
5200 1825 2                 H.D., 5 Leaf, Coded SD

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Gotta go with Eagle on this one ride height is ride height period. There had to be different springs for different model weight LB,SB,4wd,2wd, but regardless ride height is the bottom line.

You clearly sale a lifted leaf spring, which is fine and i don't think anyone is questioning quality from all the reviews you guys sale a great product, but to say you sale a stock MT spring is BS.

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Hey Eagle,

 

There are 5 different 3/1 springs and they are rated at 960, 1100, 1160, 1220 and 1280 lbs.  We can't list every spring for every vehicle because it would just confuse people greatly so we list what we sell which in the Comanche case is the 1280 and the 1500 3/2 spring.  In the last 12 months we sold 48 pair of this particular spring and twice someone has said it's too tall meaning they probably had the lowest rated spring so not too bad of a ratio.  Now if we sold one of the lower rated springs we would probably have 40 pairs coming back to us as being too low so we always go with the higher rated spring.  We do list it as the 1280 lbs spring on our website so you know what capacity you're getting when it's ordered plus I'm sure 20+ pairs of the 1280's were probably sold to people on this forum so should be pretty easy to review. 

 

If you want a spring other than the ones we sell we'd have to modify the arch or just make a batch of them as well but everyone would have to know their part number before ordering because it's much worse to sit lower than higher.  So for people who read this thread and want to be absoulutely sure of the spring you're getting then you'll need to get your factory part number for us so we can go over all the options. 

 

Hope this explains a little more

 

Joe Wallace

General Spring

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Joe,

 

As I told you yesterday, I'm not necessarily complaining, not happy nor unhappy. It's just that I'm going down a path now that I did not expect.

 

I'm at the top of my rear shocks and I'll need to do something about that this weekend. I cannot afford the OMEs right away so I'll have to get a set of Gabriels in the meantime.

 

My coils came today, I'll likely need new shocks in the front. So, I'll spend $150 this weekend only to spend $450 in a couple of months for other shocks, likely the OMEs. I just spent $300 on Bilsteins.

 

I'll even need to get a 5" drop bar for the hitch so I can pull my trailer.

 

 

One thing I will say...well....two things.....

 

I found a perfectly flat driveway and measured all four flares, from the ground to the bottom of the flare, both of the rears are right at 35", not even a 1/16th of difference, I'm very happy about that.

The other thing- it is not uncommon for me to load up on concrete or other heavy material and I have no doubt that your springs can handle the weight. I do like the idea of not riding the bottom with 1000lbs in the back.

 

I'll post pics here after I install the front springs. I may like the new height after all.

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Gotta go with Eagle on this one ride height is ride height period. There had to be different springs for different model weight LB,SB,4wd,2wd, but regardless ride height is the bottom line.

You clearly sale a lifted leaf spring, which is fine and i don't think anyone is questioning quality from all the reviews you guys sale a great product, but to say you sale a stock MT spring is BS.

 

No, what you are saying is wrong because of the following, and I'm sure Joe can back it up if he remembers. When I bought my MT 3+2 springs in 06, Joe mistakenly sent me his stock factory "model" spring, with the Chrysler p/n 52001825 stamped on it. Before I sent it back to Joe, I laid them out side.by-side; they were identical. Same free arch, same leaf ends, same wrap, same everything. His 3+2 MT spring is an exact copy of the original factory MT spring.

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Gotta go with Eagle on this one ride height is ride height period. There had to be different springs for different model weight LB,SB,4wd,2wd, but regardless ride height is the bottom line.

You clearly sale a lifted leaf spring, which is fine and i don't think anyone is questioning quality from all the reviews you guys sale a great product, but to say you sale a stock MT spring is BS.

No, what you are saying is wrong because of the following, and I'm sure Joe can back it up if he remembers. When I bought my MT 3+2 springs in 06, Joe mistakenly sent me his stock factory "model" spring, with the Chrysler p/n 52001825 stamped on it. Before I sent it back to Joe, I laid them out side.by-side; they were identical. Same free arch, same leaf ends, same wrap, same everything. His 3+2 MT spring is an exact copy of the original factory MT spring.

To me this whole thing is cut and dry, correct me if I'm wrong the FSM states 2 ride heights for our trucks across all packages? My father owns an 88 Laredo 4x4 MT he bought new I can tell you it sat about 1 maybe 2 inches higher than my 91 2wd with wore springs before I lifted.

No doubt that I'm in over my head when you guys talk spring shop terminology, but I can read a tape if it don't measure rite it ain't rite. It is also nice to know that joe has offered a remedy to this by offering to re arc them in those situations. Kudos for that I know my dad would have liked this offer years back.

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For 1991 five different 4-leaf springs and one 5-leaf spring were offered. The parts manuals do not indicate the free arch of each but I'm betting they were all different.

 

4                 SPRING ASSEMBLY ***

5200 6448 2                 Std. Duty, 4 Leaf, Coded RB

5200 6444 2                 Std. Duty, 4 Leaf, Coded RD

5200 6446 2                 Std. Duty, 4 Leaf, Coded RE

5200 6445 2                 Std. Duty, 4 Leaf, Coded RF

5200 6447 2                 Std. Duty, 4 Leaf, Coded RG

5200 1825 2                 H.D., 5 Leaf, Coded SD

And the 1986 numbers were:

 

. . . SPRING ASSEMBLY ***

8952 001 240 . . . Coded RD

8952 002 351 . . . Coded RE

8952 001 824 . . . Coded RF

8952 002 350 . . . Coded RG

8952 001 825 . . . Coded SD

 

 

Although the part numbers changed, probably as a result of converting from the AMC numbering system to Chrysler, except for the RB (which went away) the codes are the same as in Hornbrod's list.

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Took a picture of a page on my Spring Research Institute manual which lists every spring built since 1910.  All of the 3/1's have the same rate because they are made out of the same gauge of steel but the capacity varies by the arch as the higher the arch the higher the capacity.  Looks like there are 6 different arches on those year ranges on the 3/1 system meaning 6 different ride heights and that doesn't include the 3/2 and 4/1.  Not sure why they put XJ for the 86 - 90 but is probably a typo or a way to differentiate between 86-90 and 91-93.  This is a snapshot of the details of the springs but think some of you will like this info.
 
hPibBM8.jpg?1

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Wow, I'm having the exact same issue here on my '91 SWB 4x4.  I ordered new leafs from General Spring, and was surprised how much it lifted the rear.  I know mine were sagged out, and that's why I replaced them, but I'd guess I'm sitting an inch higher then stock right now, and it would be even higher if I had used the stock shackles.  Instead I used some budget boost XJ shackles (#IR-XABBS) with two height options.  The higher height of the shackle was the closest I could find to stock, but I had to install it at the lower setting because the springs lifted the truck so much.  I replaced the front coils with aftermarket XJ "upcountry" springs from Moog, and ordered new rubber isolators as well.  After installing the new coil springs and isolators up front, the truck still has too much rake for me.  My options now are to either uninstall everything and find more "stock" like leafs, or I can go higher in the front to level it out.  I decided to order a front adjustable coil over spacer from JKS instead of using a poly spacer, and although it was more money than I had planned for this, I'm hoping it will level the truck up and give me more options in the future if I decide to go higher, or even just to level the truck out if I add accessories (winch, camper shell, etc...).  At minimum, the JKS "ACOS" should lift the front 1.5'' and I am really hoping I don't have to get bigger tires to make it look right when this all gets sorted out.  To be honest, I do blame the leaf springs for the unwanted lift, but I think the truck will look good in the end and I have all the original components still if I want to take it back to stock. 

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I haven't really driven it around too much since the leafs were put in, but it seemed ok.  I will need new shocks front and back I think, definitely in the rear as they are too short now.  I actually logged on today to get a recommendation on what shocks to get now, and that's how I found this thread.  I am going to look into the OME nitrocharger shocks that Hornbrod listed in post #5, but I don't know about the yellow color.  I guess they can be painted, but I'd prefer black if possible.  

 

As an aside, while the truck is getting the adjustable spacer installed and new shocks put on, is there anything else I should consider doing/replacing at the same time, like maybe installing Grand Cherokee lower control arms to help prevent rubbing if I move to a larger tire like 32's?  Thanks!

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Once you install those OME Nitrochargers and take a drive and see how they ride / handle you won't care if they are pink or chartreuse. :yes:   And if you go to 32" or even 31" tires, go with the WJ LCAs. Not only for the tire clearance, but they handle much better than the stockers due to their solid construction and larger bushings.

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Once you install those OME Nitrochargers and take a drive and see how they ride / handle you won't care if they are pink or chartreuse. :yes:   And if you go to 32" or even 31" tires, go with the WJ LCAs. Not only for the tire clearance, but they handle much better than the stockers due to their solid construction and larger bushings.

Yeah, I have not reported on it yet but he will also be missing the ride of the OMEs springs too.

My Bilsteins came to life in the front, shocks cannot compensate for poor springs..what a difference!!

 

The JKS adjustable is a mistake, but it's one I cannot talk him out of.

 

The Gabriels on the rear feel a little better today.....but still.......OMEs when I can afford it.

 

 

 

And most definitely, the WJ LCAs are a must.

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Once you install those OME Nitrochargers and take a drive and see how they ride / handle you won't care if they are pink or chartreuse. :yes:   And if you go to 32" or even 31" tires, go with the WJ LCAs. Not only for the tire clearance, but they handle much better than the stockers due to their solid construction and larger bushings.

Yeah, I have not reported on it yet but he will also be missing the ride of the OMEs springs too.

My Bilsteins came to life in the front, shocks cannot compensate for poor springs..what a difference!!

 

The JKS adjustable is a mistake, but it's one I cannot talk him out of.

 

The Gabriels on the rear feel a little better today.....but still.......OMEs when I can afford it.

 

 

 

And most definitely, the WJ LCAs are a must.

 

I don't know if you're referring to me, but I have yet to install the JKS adjustables (still in the mail) and am all ears if anyone here thinks it is a bad idea. So far, the only objection I heard was that you'd have to cut the bump-stops off, which I don't think is necessary on my truck.  I was interested in the adjustable spacers not only because I need a little height boost up front, but also because they will give me the ability to dial in the height to compensate for future changes, so they seemed better than a simple poly spacer.  If it is going to make the truck ride rough on the street, then I may want to reconsider, and am very open to that.  I had hoped the Moog upcountry springs would level it enough, but sadly no.  Do you consider the Moog springs "poor" because they are a bad brand or because they are too short?  I do not want to pull those coil springs out now, install longer springs, and then realize it still isn't level, so that's part of the appeal of the JKS spacers.  Most importantly though, I don't want the truck to ride like sh** and/or look stupidly slanted one way or the other, so if I need to send those back and install new leafs or coils, whatever, I want the truck to be right and am willing to experiment a bit to get there.  Thanks for the advice, I'm still learning as fast as I can!

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My GS MT springs rode a bit stiff at first, but after they settled out about six months later they were fine. For rear shocks I first tried a set of Monroe Sensa-Tracks (they were mushy and didn't last six months), then tried a set of Bilstein 5125 series (like a buckboard) then the OMEs. There was no comparison, you will notice it immediately. Also went through the same cycle for the fronts. I did notice the rear sway bar stiffened up the ride some, but in a positive way. I'm happy with the ride and handling.

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Once you install those OME Nitrochargers and take a drive and see how they ride / handle you won't care if they are pink or chartreuse. :yes:   And if you go to 32" or even 31" tires, go with the WJ LCAs. Not only for the tire clearance, but they handle much better than the stockers due to their solid construction and larger bushings.

Yeah, I have not reported on it yet but he will also be missing the ride of the OMEs springs too.

My Bilsteins came to life in the front, shocks cannot compensate for poor springs..what a difference!!

 

The JKS adjustable is a mistake, but it's one I cannot talk him out of.

 

The Gabriels on the rear feel a little better today.....but still.......OMEs when I can afford it.

 

 

 

And most definitely, the WJ LCAs are a must.

 

I don't know if you're referring to me, but I have yet to install the JKS adjustables (still in the mail) and am all ears if anyone here thinks it is a bad idea. So far, the only objection I heard was that you'd have to cut the bump-stops off, which I don't think is necessary on my truck.  I was interested in the adjustable spacers not only because I need a little height boost up front, but also because they will give me the ability to dial in the height to compensate for future changes, so they seemed better than a simple poly spacer.  If it is going to make the truck ride rough on the street, then I may want to reconsider, and am very open to that.  I had hoped the Moog upcountry springs would level it enough, but sadly no.  Do you consider the Moog springs "poor" because they are a bad brand or because they are too short?  I do not want to pull those coil springs out now, install longer springs, and then realize it still isn't level, so that's part of the appeal of the JKS spacers.  Most importantly though, I don't want the truck to ride like sh** and/or look stupidly slanted one way or the other, so if I need to send those back and install new leafs or coils, whatever, I want the truck to be right and am willing to experiment a bit to get there.  Thanks for the advice, I'm still learning as fast as I can!

 

The adjuster has 1.5" built in. IIRC by your other post you said that your front is now down 1", it will be .5" above your rear height with the JKS. I suppose you can go up one with the shackle now.

 

Now having installed the OME springs and have drove on them for a few days, yeah, I'd think they are superior to Moog.

You have not stated any measurements yet.

 

The JKS is $240 IIRC. The OME and the .75" lift cost me $202.

You only need the one spacer, so leveling out your truck with superior springs will cost you under $200 and you could return the Moogs.

 

 

It's up to you, it's yours.

 

What you are doing is what I was going to do and I'm glad I didn't.

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Once you install those OME Nitrochargers and take a drive and see how they ride / handle you won't care if they are pink or chartreuse. :yes:   And if you go to 32" or even 31" tires, go with the WJ LCAs. Not only for the tire clearance, but they handle much better than the stockers due to their solid construction and larger bushings.

Yeah, I have not reported on it yet but he will also be missing the ride of the OMEs springs too.

My Bilsteins came to life in the front, shocks cannot compensate for poor springs..what a difference!!

 

The JKS adjustable is a mistake, but it's one I cannot talk him out of.

 

The Gabriels on the rear feel a little better today.....but still.......OMEs when I can afford it.

 

 

 

And most definitely, the WJ LCAs are a must.

 

I don't know if you're referring to me, but I have yet to install the JKS adjustables (still in the mail) and am all ears if anyone here thinks it is a bad idea. So far, the only objection I heard was that you'd have to cut the bump-stops off, which I don't think is necessary on my truck.  I was interested in the adjustable spacers not only because I need a little height boost up front, but also because they will give me the ability to dial in the height to compensate for future changes, so they seemed better than a simple poly spacer.  If it is going to make the truck ride rough on the street, then I may want to reconsider, and am very open to that.  I had hoped the Moog upcountry springs would level it enough, but sadly no.  Do you consider the Moog springs "poor" because they are a bad brand or because they are too short?  I do not want to pull those coil springs out now, install longer springs, and then realize it still isn't level, so that's part of the appeal of the JKS spacers.  Most importantly though, I don't want the truck to ride like sh** and/or look stupidly slanted one way or the other, so if I need to send those back and install new leafs or coils, whatever, I want the truck to be right and am willing to experiment a bit to get there.  Thanks for the advice, I'm still learning as fast as I can!

 

The adjuster has 1.5" built in. IIRC by your other post you said that your front is now down 1", it will be .5" above your rear height with the JKS. I suppose you can go up one with the shackle now.

 

Now having installed the OME springs and have drove on them for a few days, yeah, I'd think they are superior to Moog.

You have not stated any measurements yet.

 

The JKS is $240 IIRC. The OME and the .75" lift cost me $202.

You only need the one spacer, so leveling out your truck with superior springs will cost you under $200 and you could return the Moogs.

 

 

It's up to you, it's yours.

 

What you are doing is what I was going to do and I'm glad I didn't.

 

 

The Moog springs are on the truck and have maybe 5 miles on them, not sure if they are returnable at this point.  Also, I think that even installing the ACOS spacers at their lowest 1.5'' setting will leave the truck with a rake.  I have a grille guard on the front that is pulling it down a bit currently, but any real measurements will have to wait until I put the tailgate and rear bumper back on.  Just eyeballing it with the tailgate on, it seemed like a much larger difference from back to front than I expected, and I attached a pic (tailgate on) to get your opinion.  Cost aside, do you think the difference in ride quality between a 1.5'' spring lift vs. a 1.5'' adjustable spacer lift is significant enough that I should avoid the spacer, even with good shocks?  What if you factor in my circumstances like the adjustable shackle in the rear, my grille guard and potential add-ons down the road like winch and camper top?  These aren't rhetorical questions at all, I really want and need the feedback.  I don't think I've ever posted a picture of my truck, and wouldn't have posted any until it was "ready" unless I valued y'all's opinions.  Thanks for any advice.

 

P.S. sorry to hijack the thread 

 

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