JesseFourOh Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Hey All, New here, just picked up a 1987 short box for my better half, and she has big ideas for it. The truck is really solid, has some dents/dings, but no rust. I am going to put a late model XJ front clip on it, as well as the dash and center console from the same vehicle, and Mastercraft suspension seats. I am pulling the anemic 4cyl/4spd, and going with a 4.0/aw4 combo. Haven't decided on axles yet, but she wants to run 35s. What I am looking for right now is advice on springs -- I had 3 XJs over the years, but it has been a while, and I have a TJ I have had for the last 7 years so I am a little rusty with the leaf spring stuff. I want about 3" of lift, and I want to keep stock(or as close to as possible) ride quality. I also want springs that are soft enough in the rear that they will still flex nice. What would you recommend? I see Rusty's has a 3" kit with front springs, add-a-leafs, and shocks for $265. That seems REALLY cheap -- is it any good? I just don't know -- I usually stay away from Rusty's... If anyone has any suggestions let me know. And I would actually prefer junkyard parts -- what are your thoughts? Thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joester1908 Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 I had an add a leaf in my Comanche when I got it. The ride wasn't too bad, but when I went to an SOA there was a difference. Just like anything, you get what you pay for. Cheap shocks don't last. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dscowell Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Just like anything, you get what you pay for. I agree I have the BDS AAL in the rear of of my truck I didn't notice much of a change in ride quality due to it already being pretty rough. It flexes good for me! For junkyard parts just look up a list of junkyard parts (for an XJ and 99% will work for a MJ) on google and couple good lists will show up showing you have you can use. I know a guy on NAXJA used f-150 leafs in a bastard pack for 3" lift. I don't remember the year though. If you do decide to buy a new kit and not go with junkyard parts Hell Creek makes a new leaf back with a 3" lift. I know they have a good reputation among the CC community. http://www.hellcreeksuspensions.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeep Driver Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 I'm not a 'lift' guy....can't help you there. However, first thing that occurred to me was- can't see how you are going to run 35s with 3" of lift and not cut your fenders out or retain anything like stock right quality. As for cost? I paid nearly $265 just for my Bilsteins. Ain't nothin' cheap about what you want to accomplish. $6-7K minimum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JesseFourOh Posted October 10, 2014 Author Share Posted October 10, 2014 I am not affraid to cut the fenders -- I know I am going ot have to do that. The reason I am going with ~3" is becasue she is starting with 33x10.5s on D30 and Ford 8.8 that I have in the garage. The 35s won't come until a year down the road -- if I have to lit more, I can.. And even then the goal is to keep it as low as possible, and the only way to do that is cut. And I can't see putting $6-7k into it. I have that into my TJ on 37s, long arms, locked FS axles, a 6.5" stretch, full Genright armor, and a Warn winch. I can fab most of my own stuff, and based on what I ad done with my XJs and my TJ, I think I can do this for a couple grand. I have access to axles, etc. when I am ready. My brother and I have a stockpile of Ford HP front 44s and 60s, a few Corp. 14 bolts, and a bunch of 8.8s and 9s. As for the interior, and the motor/trans, I have all of that stuff already from a rolled 2001. I just need the front clip. At thsi point I am just looking for info on bout 3" of lift with decent ride quality, and preferably junkyard parts. I thought I read that some year Dakota front springs will net 3" -- does that sound right, and would it be really stiff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeep Driver Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 There are three groups of guys here- Kids, who do what kids do. Hacks, who cobble crap together. And men, mechanics who do with best with the talents they possess and the most of what they can afford. (yeah, I'm sure I pissed some folks off) Your post may have been somewhat misleading to me then- you say this is for your wife. I'm a fairly good judge of costs and I shop regularly. 8.25 swap done as cheaply as possible. New bushings in springs KJ discs JKS shackles Sway bar Lube, paint, bearings, seals, replacement axle, consumables.....etc.....brake lines....U-bolts....... $800 on the conservative side. Image Not Found I'm in the middle of my engine build- I'm at $1900 and change and I have yet to buy my paint, header, and roller rockers........$2,500++ total. [url=Image Not Found[/url ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87Warrior Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 In regards to the rear spring, search the forums for 'bastard pack'. There are several folks who have built leaf packs from a variety of vehicles netting around 3" of lift. As long as the leaf (or leaves) you are adding have more free arch than your existing spring pack at ride height, you will get lift. Some popular choices are S10 and Dakota springs. There is really no best way to go about it since your needs differ from another's. Just make sure you replace worn out friction pads and clean, smooth, paint and lube each leaf as you put the packs back together. This will really help (improve) ride and articulation. I recently added an MJ main to my leaf pack for a little boost in my 86. Up front is the same as your TJs and XJs, so you should know what to do there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joester1908 Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 I'd do an add a leaf again. Was sort of a stiff ride, but flexed fine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wesleypipesyo Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Here is a school of thought not yet brought up in this thread. What are you using the vehicle for? If it is an offroad toy go cheap and build it for the woods. Who really cares about ride quality when you are flying down the trails? If it is a DD then save up for a while and buy the proper kit. I had a tj that I tried to set up for comfort because I was driving it every day. I let the axles drop too far too many times while offroading and blew out 2 of the 3 shocks on the jeep. After that I realized it was not worth putting a ton of money into comfort if it is going to be abused in the woods. And that is my mind set with only being able to get to RC 2 or 3 times a year. Just an idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gogmorgo Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 If stock height will fit 32's (and you're limited by rubbing lower control arms in the front) why wouldn's 35's fit with a 3" lift? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JesseFourOh Posted October 10, 2014 Author Share Posted October 10, 2014 If stock height will fit 32's (and you're limited by rubbing lower control arms in the front) why wouldn's 35's fit with a 3" lift? Assuming it is the same as an XJ, the tires hit the front and the backs of the fender openings/flares, as well as the CAs if you have too much BS on the wheels. This happens with 33s on 3" of lift. With 35s you need to trim more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JesseFourOh Posted October 11, 2014 Author Share Posted October 11, 2014 There are three groups of guys here- Kids, who do what kids do. Hacks, who cobble crap together. And men, mechanics who do with best with the talents they possess and the most of what they can afford. (yeah, I'm sure I pissed some folks off) Your post may have been somewhat misleading to me then- you say this is for your wife. I'm a fairly good judge of costs and I shop regularly. 8.25 swap done as cheaply as possible. New bushings in springs KJ discs JKS shackles Sway bar Lube, paint, bearings, seals, replacement axle, consumables.....etc.....brake lines....U-bolts....... $800 on the conservative side. I'm in the middle of my engine build- I'm at $1900 and change and I have yet to buy my paint, header, and roller rockers........$2,500++ total. I am not sure if I understand, why does it matter who it is for, and how did I mislead you? I am the one building it, and I know what she wants, I asked what springs would provied a near stock ride at ~3" of lift... And if you are inferring that since I want to do this on the cheap that I am a “Hack” that is cobbling stuff together, you are mistaken. Not that it matters, but I make more than enough money to buy the “best” of everything for this rig – but there is zero reason to spend thousands of dollars on fancy new stuff when I have fab abilities, and when used stuff works just fine -- sometimes JY parts work better too. I have the engine/trans and harness for the swap, and the cost is nowhere close to what you have in yours -- actually less than half of what you have into your axle. In regards to the rear spring, search the forums for 'bastard pack'. There are several folks who have built leaf packs from a variety of vehicles netting around 3" of lift. As long as the leaf (or leaves) you are adding have more free arch than your existing spring pack at ride height, you will get lift. Some popular choices are S10 and Dakota springs. There is really no best way to go about it since your needs differ from another's. Just make sure you replace worn out friction pads and clean, smooth, paint and lube each leaf as you put the packs back together. This will really help (improve) ride and articulation. I recently added an MJ main to my leaf pack for a little boost in my 86. Up front is the same as your TJs and XJs, so you should know what to do there. Thanks for the info -- I tried to search this site a bit, but I keep getting results that have nothing to do with my search criteria. I did have a S-10 bastard pack in one of my XJs, but didn't know if it would be different in the MJ. Here is a school of thought not yet brought up in this thread. What are you using the vehicle for? If it is an offroad toy go cheap and build it for the woods. Who really cares about ride quality when you are flying down the trails? If it is a DD then save up for a while and buy the proper kit. I had a tj that I tried to set up for comfort because I was driving it every day. I let the axles drop too far too many times while offroading and blew out 2 of the 3 shocks on the jeep. After that I realized it was not worth putting a ton of money into comfort if it is going to be abused in the woods. And that is my mind set with only being able to get to RC 2 or 3 times a year. Just an idea. The Jeep is going to be used probably 10%/90%, on-road/offroading(rocks, Moab type stuff). Regardless of what it is used for, it needs to be good on the street because she wants it to br good on the street. If I have to spend a bit more money to get it that way that is fine – but I don't believe I do. Good on the trail does not mean you must sacrifice street drivability or vice versa, nor does it mean expensive – at least not in my experience. P.S. If you were breaking shocks from droop, they were either too short, or needed to be limited with straps. It has nothing to do with wanting a nice ride. Anyways, thanks for any info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wesleypipesyo Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 No, I needed limiting straps big time. I had a long arm kit and I didn't have sway bars. The thing flexed like mad. It was a beast in the woods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeep Driver Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 OK. I'm not here to argue with you but you are not the only one here and others get ideas from what is posted. You OP states that you want to run 35s with 3" of lift.......ain't gonna happen. You also state you have a pile of axles to choose from. The only one that makes sense is the Ford 9", but then you are not going to use factory wheels anyway since you need 10" wheels. So you are going full width? And you already have the wheels and tires? What pattern? Because the GM and Ford/Jeep patterns are different, mix and match? Wheels and tires alone will cost you $1800. And I'm assuming all your axles are matching with lockers? And the front axle is Jeep ready? Guess you already have the XJ donor too?........that's $500 right there........if you can find a good one for the front clip and seats....dash .....etc.. Guess you got at pile of control arms and adjustable track bars? Minimum $600 there....... Must be nice to have piles and piles of parts that others have a hard time finding or affording. Yeah, forget about body work and paint, hell, some guys here either rattle can or......yes, I've seen it, got a brush and a gallon of house paint. Flares alone will cost you $450.......but why bother with that, right? From a personal perspective- At least 1-2 guys a month come up to me in a parking lot and ask me if I know someone with a MJ for sale that has not be beat-up or cut-up or is not $6-7K. Why? because there are not many left and guys like you buy them and hack them up. It is yours though, do as you will. This is a perfect example- 33s on 6" of lift. $13K invested.......and that sounds about right. http://nwga.craigslist.org/cto/4641178830.html I'm sure I'm not the only one that wants to see this $2000 build, please post it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitroxsteve Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 If stock height will fit 32's (and you're limited by rubbing lower control arms in the front) why wouldn's 35's fit with a 3" lift? I have never seen a stock mj/xj with 32" tires. 31" is the most I have seen and depending on what wheels you use you can have trouble rubbing in different spots. I have heard of people having rubbing wit 235/75/15's I say 3" for 31" tires unless you want to trim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitroxsteve Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 What would you recommend? I see Rusty's has a 3" kit with front springs, add-a-leafs, and shocks for $265. That seems REALLY cheap -- is it any good? I just don't know -- I usually stay away from Rusty's... If anyone has any suggestions let me know. And I would actually prefer junkyard parts -- what are your thoughts? Thanks in advance. I have this kit and it rides ok. The rear of our trucks are so light it makes it tough to get a good ride. Only 2 issue with the kit is the rear AAL is for xj. It only lifted my truck 1.5 " in the rear and the center bolt is smaller than the mj spring. This should be drilled out and correct bolt installed. I like that it only lifted the rear a little as the truck still sits higher in the back by 1". This kit will only be good for 31" tires with no trimming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shelbyluvv Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 I have a 4.5" lift on my 89. I am using RE 4.5" coils, RE DBs, stock arms and a JKS TB in the front. The rear is comprised of Hell Creek 4.5" leaf packs (non metric ton). My shocks are cheap white rockets and my ride sucks. I have been searching for a softer shock and have been coming up empty handed. Bilstein 5100s don't feel much different. I can't find OME shocks in the size I need and the same deal with parts store Monroes. Once I figure out what shock gives me the best ride I will be a happy Jeeper. Right now I can't stand the ride of my truck. My 3/4 ton Dodge rides better. I guess where I am going with this is 99% of the ride quality is provided by the shocks. Do your research and choose the best shock for the ride you want to achieve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertmike Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 I need to hijack this thread for an answer. lol. shelbyluvv has an RE 4.5 lift with Hell Creek leafs. Does the truck sit level? Did the leafs settle after awhile? I put a RC 4.5 long arm on mine and the rear sits to low. Has add a leaf and extended shackles from a long time ago. I'm sure the springs are sagging a bit too. Trying to decide to get the 3 or 4.5 leafs from Hell Creek. Can't afford both sizes. Kinda leaning towards the 3 inch and cut the front coils some. The ride isnt to bad now but has stock leafs. I do put some sand bags in the back now and then though. I do have another set of MJ leafs to make a bastard pack but I think that would just make the ride stiffer. Any input would be appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shelbyluvv Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 It does sit pretty level. There are pics on page 17 of my Project Onyx thread. It was higher in the rear for about six months. The previous owner hauled around some sand bags for about 4 months to break the leaves in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incommando Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 I have a well riding and an off-road capable truck that I spent about $1,600 on lifting and converting to 4wd. That includes brand new mud terrains. I went about it a different way then the OP wants to go but my way isn't the only way and I know it. I appreciate Hellcreek but I would only buy components that they make. The rest of their stuff is Rough Country who is a crappy company with mediocre products. For 3" of front lift you may consider OME springs and an additional spacer to get the height you want if needed. I know from other Applications that they ride well. Short aal's seem to ride rougher and maybe break leaf packs. If you go AAL I might still stick to full length ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87MJTIM Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 I put on General Springs with the 3:2 military wrap. My back end was lifted approx. 3". I had to put 2" spacers up front to level it off. I am running 235/75/15. July '14 MJOM. The spings are $220 each. They sell a 3:1 leaf for $140. http://www.generalspringkc.com/Leaf_Springs_Jeep_Comanche_s/1954.htm This is before shipping. If you order these, ask for a CC discount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JesseFourOh Posted October 13, 2014 Author Share Posted October 13, 2014 OK. I'm not here to argue with you but you are not the only one here and others get ideas from what is posted. You OP states that you want to run 35s with 3" of lift.......ain't gonna happen. You also state you have a pile of axles to choose from. The only one that makes sense is the Ford 9", but then you are not going to use factory wheels anyway since you need 10" wheels. So you are going full width? And you already have the wheels and tires? What pattern? Because the GM and Ford/Jeep patterns are different, mix and match? Wheels and tires alone will cost you $1800. And I'm assuming all your axles are matching with lockers? And the front axle is Jeep ready? Guess you already have the XJ donor too?........that's $500 right there........if you can find a good one for the front clip and seats....dash .....etc.. Guess you got at pile of control arms and adjustable track bars? Minimum $600 there....... Must be nice to have piles and piles of parts that others have a hard time finding or affording. Yeah, forget about body work and paint, hell, some guys here either rattle can or......yes, I've seen it, got a brush and a gallon of house paint. Flares alone will cost you $450.......but why bother with that, right? From a personal perspective- At least 1-2 guys a month come up to me in a parking lot and ask me if I know someone with a MJ for sale that has not be beat-up or cut-up or is not $6-7K. Why? because there are not many left and guys like you buy them and hack them up. It is yours though, do as you will. This is a perfect example- 33s on 6" of lift. $13K invested.......and that sounds about right. http://nwga.craigslist.org/cto/4641178830.html I'm sure I'm not the only one that wants to see this $2000 build, please post it up. The goal is to run 35's -- and if you go back and read what I said, you will see I said she is going to run 33's on 3" for the first year, and when it comes time to go up to 35's if I need to lift more, I will. My post says exactly that. I don't really care how much your parts cost. That 2001 XJ(that I already said I had in my second post) -- it was purchased for $500. The axles, TC, suspension bits, seats, carpet, and one good door were sold for ~$800. We still have the engine/trans, both computers, harnesses, dash, column, center console and interior harness. So far on this build, I am $300 AHEAD. The 8.8 cost me $150, I think(I picked it up a few years ago), so I am still $150 AHEAD. And instead of buying 4 steel wheels at $70/ea. and 4 33's at $235/ea., I will use the 33" MTRs I have for my TJ when I need to run thru emissions -- I will buy $125 adapters for the bigger bolt pattern. Still $25 AHEAD. And please explain why I need 10" wide wheels... I still need a lift, seats, and I need consumables. I will be making my own CA's, bumpers, and tube flares(if she decides she even wants flares). If you want to talk about my $2000 budget, it looks like I have $2025 left to spend. Sorry you are spending so much on your stuff. That doesn't mean I have too(or anyone else for that matter). As far as cutting is concerned -- are you serious? The box on our truck was hit in the pass. side rear, and has a bunch of bondo in it, so what does it matter? After all, the box is really the only thing that is MJ specific that would be cut. Maybe you should find out the background of our vehicle before making unfouded statements about "Guys like me". "We" are not the problem. The problem is that people are lazy and don't want to put in anythe time/effort for a 25 year old pick-up truck. I found 4 solid MJs in 2 days -- none of them were cut up, and none of them were $6,000. It's silly that I came to a Comanche specific forum ask what 3" lift will keep me close to stock ride quality on a Comanche, and I get you telling me you are "not a lift guy", and can't help me with that, then proceed to tell me that I can't do what I have done before within a certain budget. Thanks to everyone else who replied. I just picked up 2 BDS 4.5" XJ lift springs for $50. I'll make some leaf combo work. I am going ot see how stiff they end up being before I get something for the front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incommando Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Just FYI: tj/xj/mj all share the same 5x4.5 bolt pattern. If the rims fit your tj they will fit your xj or mj axles without adapters. YJ/KJ/zj/kk/mk also share that pattern Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrizzzzBear Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 JesseFourOhYou Sir, NEED to Keep this in mind....... XJ Weight on Springs is not even Close to HALF the rating of MJ's. Even the Heaviest of the XJ Leafs are about HALF of the MJ Leafs. There is Much Documented Proof of this FACT. As for what you are wanting to do, I too, would like to see it when done. I put 31's on mine Initially ( Now I'm on 33", can go to 35" with No Rubbing ) Front: 5" Lift, with Factory Wheels. There was Massive Rubbing on the LCA. Made adjustments to get 6" Lift, Spacers for Wheels, Different LCA, Rear: Modified SOA, gave me 6 1/ 2" Lift.1" Spacers for Wheels. Now I'm Good. All of This with No Cutting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joester1908 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 I had 30s on my stock XJ and they rubbed when flexing...although, suspension was pretty warn out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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