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2.5 Timing, Tapping/ticking And Hesitant Starting


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89 2.5. 

 

Symptoms:

Engine was running alright but with a tapping/ticking mostly noticeable at idle.  Frequency increased with engine rpm and it has either gotten louder in the last few months or I've just been noticing it more the last few months, not sure.  I had a video, but I recently lost everything on my phone so that's no help.

 

Thinking back, there were also a couple times where it would crank and crank without starting, which is very odd for my truck.  I had to floor the gas pedal then it would sputter and start up, requiring some feathering on the gas pedal for about 20sec before it would run smooth in idle.  Around the same time I was having this issue, it would hesitate/bog down while driving for about 4sec at a time.  This only happened a couple times.  I chalked all of this up to my fuel pump going bad, which I'm rethinking now.

 

Where I'm at:

I started with checking the flywheel, which looks fine.  I continued to drop the oil pan, which was nice and clean with nothing but oil in it.  Took this opportunity to crack open the timing.  Since I know nothing when it comes to timing, it initially looked fine, but after going through some threads it doesn't look fine after all.  Couple pics I went out and snapped are below. 

 

So I'm convinced I need a new tensioner and I'm looking for advice on whether I need to go buy a timing set as well.

 

Could this be the source of my ticking/tapping?

 

Is this enough slack to have slipped and the timing being off be the cause of my hesitation and hard starting?

 

I've read several threads but I'm looking for some more help.  I can replace parts like a champ, but this is starting to be real mechanic stuff.  Thanks in advance.

 

Tensioner installed, 20 pins:

CzqdM97.jpg

 

Tensioner off:

qMSi5A8.jpg

 

Tensioner:

damVLg6.jpg

 

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Yes, your chain and tensioner are worn. Cam to crank timing may be off by 1 degree or so but that will not be enough to cause the symptoms you state.

 

Lifter tap and tick at idle is due to one of four things, either the lifters are worn, or the push rods bent, or the valves are out of adjustment, or the oil pressure is not sufficient to keep the lifters pumped up.

I'm going with a lack of oil pressure.

Lack of oil pressure will be caused by either the oil pump is worn or the main and rod and cam bearing are worn to the point they bleed out faster than the pump can supply oil to them.

 

 

If it were me......based on the info provided that oil pan was clean......no debris........

 

Look for and replace with a Mellings high volume oil pump, replace timing chain and tensioner, and put it back together. Should cost you about $200 total and you may get another 10K to 20K miles out of it.

Or.....

Plan on a rebuild, if you have the time and money, should cost you around $1200 to $1500 with machining and parts.

 

Once you get it back together.......then you can sort out the hesitation and other problems you have.

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just throwing something out there

the TBI dose make a ticking sound and it is most noticeable at idle with the air cleaner off. as far as the rest of the symtoms you described I also had similar problems. I also thought it was my fuel pump and when I checked the fuel pressure it was only at 10psi. when o pulled out the sending unit from the tank I found that the rubber hose that comes off the pump and runs to the port on the outside had almost completely disintegrated. you could hear the pump running but it was spraying out of the hose inside the tank.

 just something else to consider

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The timing chain looks fine to me. You may not realize that the 2.5L uses the same timing chain and gear set as the 4.0L, but in the 2.5L the spacing between the two gears is slightly less. So the chain will always be slack. That's why they use the tensioner. (The same timing set in the 4.0L does not use a tensioner).

 

A failing CPS could cause all the starting and running symptoms you describe, except the ticking.

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A failing CPS as Eagle states could be the starting issue. Test it. Post 7 in my Tips.

 

2.5s were notorious for piston slap also.

 

Other driveability issues can be caused by poor grounding of the sensor circuit. see post 5. I would do posts 1,3,4, and 5 as a matter of course.

 

I'm doubting your bearings are shot.

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Thanks for the replies fellas.  I'll replace the tensioner for now and start getting it back together at least.  I understand the 2.5 and the 4.0 use the same chain that's why I wanted more opinion on it before I replaced it as well.  RockAuto has the Enginetech for 12 bucks or should I get a Cloyes or Clevite?

 

The engine has 180k on it. At 151k, the PO had the block replaced.  The CPS was replaced at 165k but I will go through Cruiser's tips, bout time to do most of that anyways.

 

Ill check the fuel pressure, but I replaced the pump about 5k miles back.  It was just giving some of the same symptoms that I was experiencing before I replaced it.

 

I'll look into the oil pump and the piston slap as well, just need to get it moving again.  It is typically my daily driver for about a grand total of 6 miles a day and now I'm stranding the wife at home. 

 

Thanks again for the inputs, I'll dig back into it and see what I find.

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The engine has 180k on it. At 151k, the PO had the block replaced.  The CPS was replaced at 165k but I will go through Cruiser's tips, bout time to do most of that anyways.

???

 

If the block was replaced at 151k, then are you saying it has gone 180k since the replacement, or are you saying that the engine really only has 29k on it?

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The engine has 180k on it. At 151k, the PO had the block replaced.  The CPS was replaced at 165k but I will go through Cruiser's tips, bout time to do most of that anyways.

???

 

If the block was replaced at 151k, then are you saying it has gone 180k since the replacement, or are you saying that the engine really only has 29k on it?

 

 

I apologize, all mileages are in reference to the odometer.  So yes, 29k since the block was replaced, that was in 2002.  CPS replaced 15k ago.

 

Any recommendation on tensioners?  Haven't had to deal with any parts to make me familiar with these manufactures. 

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IMHO, you'd be foolish not to replace the timing set, since you've got it torn down that far right now.  That tensioner is at the end of it's life.....see the little "block" thingy underneath it?  It started it's life at the other end of the tensioner, and that spring was fully compressed.  It's got little plastic teeth on the inside that act as a self-adjuster as it wears.  And those ridges on the topside is where the chain has worn thru the face.

 

Stick a rag or something into the front of the pan to prevent anything from falling into the pan while you are working (like the little circlip you popped off to get the tensionser off).

 

Jeff

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Jeff,

 

I went through your post as well as others as I was doing it since I knew nothing about this.  Your pictures helped a lot, exactly what us new guys need to see.  The pan has been removed for cleaning and paint so no worries there.  If I replace everything, any reason to go with one manufacturer over another?  I was leaning toward either the cloyes or clevite full kits at rockauto.

 

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/x,carcode,1181663,parttype,5756

 

I never verified TDC or anything. I'll go back through your writeup again, but would there be anything wrong with just putting a new set on exactly how the old set comes off as it sits?

 

Also Jeff, what did you end up doing with your HB?  Your rubber looked pretty chewed on.  Mine doesn't look as bad as yours did and it doesn't rub.  It had some liquid gasket (pic below).  Is this typical? Should I put it back on like that?

 

jDIdYSM.jpg?1

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I cannot believe you did not set at TDC on the compression stroke before removal.

 

And no, your new set will not just slide on.........and yes, you can find yourself with one tooth off with the new chain, it ain't stretched.

 

 

 

I suggest you put it back on and return to TDC and verify compression stroke with distributor on #1 cylinder.

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I cannot believe you did not set at TDC on the compression stroke before removal.

 

And no, your new set will not just slide on.........and yes, you can find yourself with one tooth off with the new chain, it ain't stretched.

 

 

 

I suggest you put it back on and return to TDC and verify compression stroke with distributor on #1 cylinder.

No big. I never took the chain or gears off so it's as simple as putting the cover and hb back on. It's all about learning, thanks for the help fellas.

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Yes, get it to #1 TDC before removing anything. FYI, my timing cover did not have the little timing tab on it.....I had to verify TDC by valve position and where the rotor was pointing in the distributor.  The timing notch was on the HB, though, so that helped verify I wasn't 180 out.  For my HB, I just took a razor knife and sliced off the rubber that was sticking out (I later replaced the entire thing).

 

That red/orange stuff on your cover looks like RTV to me.  Probably smeared on the outside of the crank seal before it was installed in the timing cover.  Not a bad idea, cheap insurance against leaks, but if you take your time and drive your new seal in square you really wouldn't need it.  Just MHO.

 

Oh, and I used a Cloyes kit.  As far as I know, that engine is still putting around.  We swapped it into another member's MJ (Pingpong) a few years ago, and he ended up selling it to a new owner.  Last I knew it was still on the road.  It's probably got north of 250K on it at this point LOL.  The 2.5 in my 01 TJ just blew up, right around 200K......I traded it on a KJ.  Go figure.

 

Jeff

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