91Pioneer Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 So... took a 40 mile drive today... I think I need a new pinion seal, what do you think? LOL My plan of attack: 1. Check axle vent rubber hose, clear as necessary. 2. Buy new pinion seal & synthetic fluid. 3. Fix it. From what I've read the 88's did not use a crush sleeve (used shims on the pinion instead) so that makes things easier. I tell ya every time I fix one thing I notice something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ComancheKid45 Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 A good seal puller does wonders with Pinion seals :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
91Pioneer Posted June 6, 2014 Author Share Posted June 6, 2014 What's the torque value of the pinion nut when you don't have a crush sleeve? Does anyone have tips on removing/installing the pinion and/or nut? This is all new to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bornindesert Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 You are correct, there's no crush washer on the D30 on your 1988 axle. There's a torque range on the nut, which should be replaced anybtime its removed if you go by the book. The procedure is to apply incremental torque starting at a low enough value (200 ft lbs) and then measure the running torque of the pinion. Target running torque would be 15 in lbs. So, you'll need a smaller in-lb torque wrench that has a dial read out plus a hefty traditional torque wrench that handles up to 500 ft lbs. The procedure is to torque the pinion nut, measure running torque and repeat by increasing the pinion nut torque by 25 ft lbs until you see the running torque come up. After that, make smaller increments on the pinion nut until you get the 15 in lbs rotating. I don't have the spec in front if me, but you'll be looking to get your running torque with a range of about 275-350 ft lbs. Don't over torque, or you'll wipe out the threads on the nut. Also, you could measure the running torque before you back off the pinion nut, and use that value as a target for when you reassemble. Hope that helps, least get you started thinking about what you'll need. I made a tool to hold the yoke while torquing the nut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyc Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 That looks like a REAR axle to me. :) If its a D44, then its super easy. I just did mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
91Pioneer Posted June 22, 2014 Author Share Posted June 22, 2014 Bornindesert, are you sure that applies to the '88? What I read after a google search shows just a torque value to tighten the nut down to, since there are shims instead of a crush sleeve. I'd like to DIY but if I have to drop $100+ on tools I'll only use once I just might ask a shop what they'd charge to do this job, I'd bet it would be under $200. I was hoping to get away with just torquing the old nut back down to whatever value the book calls for. I see write-ups like this and think "piece of cake, no special tools": http://www.cherokeeforum.com/f51/xj-front-pinion-seal-replacement-43429/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incommando Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Yeah there is a typo or a disconnect somewhere. The OP is working on a rear axle from the pics and the procedure described is said to be for a D30 not a D35 ( what it looks like to my old tired eyes) or D44 ( the other factory option.) They might all be the same ( I don't know) but some clarification might be needed before anyone goes any further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stacks Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 These photos are copied from a document from Dana. It shows the crush sleeve is used from 1985 1/2 to 1998 1/2 D35's. #5 in the exploded diagram is the crush sleeve/collar. I am assuming this is in fact accurate. I have not seen a D35 that did not have a crush collar/sleeve. I also admit I haven't seen every D35 there is either. The bill of material number is stamped on the axle tube so you can verify what year it actually is. I hope this info is useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
91Pioneer Posted June 22, 2014 Author Share Posted June 22, 2014 Yes I'm needing to replace my rear pinion seal and I know that writeup is for a front. What I've read is the front (Dana30) does not use a crush sleeve and the rear (Dana 35) also does not use a crush sleeve until 1990, therefore the sleeveless pinion seal replacement instructions should be the same. Has someone on this forum disassembled a 87/88/89 rear diff and can confirm no crush sleeve? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOrnbrod Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Yes I'm needing to replace my rear pinion seal and I know that writeup is for a front. What I've read is the front (Dana30) does not use a crush sleeve and the rear (Dana 35) also does not use a crush sleeve until 1990, therefore the sleeveless pinion seal replacement instructions should be the same. Has someone on this forum disassembled a 87/88/89 rear diff and can confirm no crush sleeve? The factory parts manuals show a pinion crush sleeve (called Spacer, Pinion), for all 86-93 XJ/MJ D35 rear diffs, p/n J3175779. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Also, if I'm not mistaken, the FSM specification for the rotating torque is for an axle with no shafts installed, and possibly (don't remember exactly) for the pinion without the ring gear and carrier installed. So for a seal replacement the advice to measure the rotating torque before removing the old pinion nut, and then matching that when reassembling, is good advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13 Legion Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Just put a new pinion seal in a couple weeks ago. It was on my 87 2.5 with D35 diff. I marked pinion nut before removing. That way when I re-installed, I tightened to that mark. I was told by many to ensure not to over tighten. I also marked position of driveshaft when i disassembled. Not sure if that mattered or not.(this pic was prior to work being done) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
91Pioneer Posted June 23, 2014 Author Share Posted June 23, 2014 I tried doing some searching again on Google to see if I could find that reference I found like a month ago that talked about the two different Dana 35's. I could not find the exact source I had before, but I did find talk of a 1990+ Dana 35c versus a Dana 35 from 1989-older. What's the diff (pun intended)? My understanding was for the D35's older than '90 they did not have the crush sleeve but sources here seem to say otherwise. Man I wish I bookmarked that link. It's really more of a curiosity thing now. 13 Legion, to be honest I've seen YouTube videos showing just that, and countless forum posts all over the 'net saying that's good enough. Either tightening that nut down to the same spot (mark it before removing) or going just a hair tighter for good measure. I even saw one post that was a Ford tech saying Ford's warranty jobs for the seals do not even call for replacing the crush sleeve, just tightening back down to the same spot. Given how many folks online have done it the way you did I really don't think it would do any harm. If it did, the forums would also point that out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 The early Dana 35s did not use c-clips in the differential to retain the axles. The axles are held in by the bearing retainers at the outer ends. The 1990 and newer use c-clips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOrnbrod Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Also, if I'm not mistaken, the FSM specification for the rotating torque is for an axle with no shafts installed, and possibly (don't remember exactly) for the pinion without the ring gear and carrier installed. So for a seal replacement the advice to measure the rotating torque before removing the old pinion nut, and then matching that when reassembling, is good advice. ^^ Best way. When I did the seal on my old D35, I simply counted the exposed threads then tightened the nut back to the same spot, then just a bit more. Also make sure to use a new nut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
91Pioneer Posted July 4, 2014 Author Share Posted July 4, 2014 This really doesn't matter but I think this was the post that got me confused about this situation: hornbrod: thread @ http://comancheclub.com/topic/30118-d35-leak-how-serious-is-this-help/?p=306266 You never mention what year your D35 is. If it's a non c-clip axle (1989 and below) the diff uses shims to set preload. So no worries changing out the pinion seal as long as you re-torque the pinion shaft nut back to correct specs. It's probably leaking because the seal has worn a groove in the pinion yoke shaft over time. Sometimes just sanding the shaft smooth and replacing the seal only will cure it, sometimes not. I just replaced the pinion yoke shaft on my D44 with a stronger u-bolt unit along with a new seal and nut. Not a bad job at all.If your D35 comes from a 1990 and up axle it's a c-clip axle. These use a crush sleeve to set preload, so you need to replace that too. These can get hairy to set the preload correctly if you don't know what you are doing. I was under the impression pre-90's did not have crush sleeves. And, I could just torque the nut to whatever ft-lbs and call it a day. Even the real parts lookup sites show a crush sleeve such as this one: http://www.factorychryslerparts.com/showAssembly.aspx?ukey_assembly=701874&ukey_make=1064&ukey_model=15526&modelYear=1988&ukey_category=20306&ukey_driveLine=7395 I already know I've passed the "you're overthinking this" stage. I just haven't ordered the seal yet (I'm not really in a big rush, I don't go on the highway much) and this was bugging me in the back of my head, so I was digging around to see where I got the idea of just torquing the nut down, no need for measurements. Anywho, I'm not trying to pick on hornbrod, I will get my hands on that seal and take a stab at it. Although I have been toying with the idea of buying this so I have another tool :thumbsup: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000I1WPFE/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
91Pioneer Posted July 4, 2014 Author Share Posted July 4, 2014 Heeeeeyyyy... 'twas searching Amazon some more. I might be able to save some cash (~$100) and buy this instead: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DSGIJR4/ Hmmmmm..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOrnbrod Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 This really doesn't matter but I think this was the post that got me confused about this situation: hornbrod: thread @ http://comancheclub.com/topic/30118-d35-leak-how-serious-is-this-help/?p=306266 You never mention what year your D35 is. If it's a non c-clip axle (1989 and below) the diff uses shims to set preload. So no worries changing out the pinion seal as long as you re-torque the pinion shaft nut back to correct specs. It's probably leaking because the seal has worn a groove in the pinion yoke shaft over time. Sometimes just sanding the shaft smooth and replacing the seal only will cure it, sometimes not. I just replaced the pinion yoke shaft on my D44 with a stronger u-bolt unit along with a new seal and nut. Not a bad job at all. If your D35 comes from a 1990 and up axle it's a c-clip axle. These use a crush sleeve to set preload, so you need to replace that too. These can get hairy to set the preload correctly if you don't know what you are doing. I was under the impression pre-90's did not have crush sleeves. And, I could just torque the nut to whatever ft-lbs and call it a day. Even the real parts lookup sites show a crush sleeve such as this one: http://www.factorychryslerparts.com/showAssembly.aspx?ukey_assembly=701874&ukey_make=1064&ukey_model=15526&modelYear=1988&ukey_category=20306&ukey_driveLine=7395 I already know I've passed the "you're overthinking this" stage. I just haven't ordered the seal yet (I'm not really in a big rush, I don't go on the highway much) and this was bugging me in the back of my head, so I was digging around to see where I got the idea of just torquing the nut down, no need for measurements. Anywho, I'm not trying to pick on hornbrod, I will get my hands on that seal and take a stab at it. Although I have been toying with the idea of buying this so I have another tool :thumbsup: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000I1WPFE/ Yes, I was all wet on that one. A friend and I did a gear change years ago on my old 91 D35 and we had problems with the crush sleeve crushing. He said if only your truck were a few years older the D35 would not have a crush sleeve because they used shims. I took him at his word as he's one of the sharpest mechanics I know. Then when I read this thread I took the time to look it up in the factory parts manual. Sure enough all the D35s used in the MJ era had crush sleeves. Sorry for the confusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
91Pioneer Posted August 11, 2014 Author Share Posted August 11, 2014 OK I'm about ready to get this done, I think I'll finally have time this week to do it. I was just wondering in the event the yoke has a groove in it and needs replacement, what is the correct part # for me to buy? Can be any brand, just needs to be cheap. Crown, Omix-Ada, whatever. When I looked on RockAuto they did not appear to carry the yoke for the D35. I kind of think this is the right one but it says it's for Wranglers only so I don't know: Omix-Ada 16580.20. Worst case I could probably find a speedy sleeve but I hear they're only slightly cheaper than buying a yoke so may as well spend a little extra and just buy the yoke (if I find out I need it after removing the old one). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
91Pioneer Posted September 1, 2014 Author Share Posted September 1, 2014 Bump, I need help. Here's what I pulled off today: What's the right part number for a replacement yoke? Mine is pretty groovy LOL and RockAuto is no help. Local auto parts store did not have anything either. So I might go to eBay or Amazon to purchase one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOrnbrod Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 Very groovy. Too groovy to seal. P/n 83503318 is the one you need. http://www.jeep4x4center.com/pinion-yoke-2-97-overall-height-83503318.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
91Pioneer Posted September 1, 2014 Author Share Posted September 1, 2014 I know it's groovy, that's why I don't want to put it back together with a new seal, it won't last. Thanks. It's silly that these parts sites online will include Cherokee & not Comanche. OK, frustrating sometimes. I know most everything is the same but sometimes you just gotta be 100% sure when you're buying online... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOrnbrod Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 http://www.4wd.com/Jeep-Drivetrain-Jeep-Axles-Differentials/Dana-35-Pinion-Yoke.aspx?t_c=12&t_s=515&t_pt=7940&t_pn=CRO83503318 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
91Pioneer Posted September 1, 2014 Author Share Posted September 1, 2014 Looks like http://www.omix-ada.com/d35-strap-style-yoke-87-06-jeep-wrangler.html cross references to the same part #. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
91Pioneer Posted September 2, 2014 Author Share Posted September 2, 2014 Hey hornbrod, do you think the Omix-Ada one would work? Fits 87-06 Dana 35 wranglers. It's a bit cheaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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