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Locked Wheels on Ice while Sliding and Gear Clicking Sound


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#1 ComancheBSJ90

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Posted 17 December 2008 - 11:27 AM

Ok, I'm on a down slope hill glazed in ice.

Going whatever speed in 2hi then throw the trans in Neutral and hammer the breaks results in a sliding STOP.

In both 4hi & 4lo when I do the same as above I hear a clicking/gear rubbing sound coming from either the transfer case or the front end.

What is this sound and why does it happen and what is the fix?

thanks

#2 mfpdm

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Posted 17 December 2008 - 04:59 PM

I might be wrong and someone chime in if so, but if your just throwing the tranny in neutral, the front and rear are still join together with the tcase. Thus, if one axle is trying to turn, your binding the gears in the tcase, which is probably the source of your noise. Even with the brakes applied, more than likely the rear axle is still trying to turn because of the ride sensing valve not allowing enough juice through to lock them up.

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#3 mvusse

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Posted 17 December 2008 - 08:04 PM

I don't think binding is an issue on ice. But with all four wheels locked up, sliding, I have no clue what the clicking sound could be.
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#4 ComancheBSJ90

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Posted 17 December 2008 - 09:42 PM

It's the strangest thing! It's almost as if the front axles are not fully engaged and when the wheels are locked up that one axle is locked while the other is rubbing its gears against it.

I had asked two knowledgeable technicians and one I will talk to soon, but the other said to check things like front break rotors or transfer case mounts... Which is funny because it's definitely sounds like a ratcheting

#5 Eagle

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Posted 17 December 2008 - 11:20 PM

If you have a front axle disconnect -- make sure it's engaging fully.
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#6 ComancheBSJ90

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Posted 18 December 2008 - 01:46 AM

The other technician had not run it by his colleges yet, so i went ahead with adjusting the transfer case shift linkage.

As a note I still experience the above noted problems.

I followed the steps in the Haynes Manual by adding an 1/8 inch shim, loosening the lock bolt on the trunnion and adjust the rod so it fits freely in the trunnion and the shift lever.

Well, once I loosened the bolt the trunnion slid automatically back on the rod about an 1/8 of an inch (from the end of the rod) and with my persuasion it would not move in both forth and aft position, so I tightened it there.

On a test drive I could not shift it in 4hi with out stopping. Troubleshooting (truck not moving), I put the transfer case in NEUTRAL and when shifting it back to 4hi I would hear that same gear rubbing sound as it shifted. However if I pressed in the clutch when shifting to 4hi (from neutral) it would go in with out any sound.

I will try to force the trunnion from it's position now and slide it about 1/4 inch toward the end of the rod (or an 1/8 inch to get it back where it was). I'm hopping this will enable my 'on the fly 4 wheel drive' (as to how it was working before) and stop that gear rubbing sound when break sliding to a stop.

Any suggestions would be a great help and the thoughts of those that already suggested is much appreciated.


Michael

#7 ComancheBSJ90

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Posted 18 December 2008 - 09:35 PM

Well my idea of readjusting the transfer case shift lever linkage did not work to correct my problem.

I still have the same problem as noted above and I still can't shift to 4hi on the fly.

With these part time transfer cases' does it require the clutch to be depressed to shift?

I have a 1989 Jeep Comanche, 4.0L, 5 speed, 4x4, 231 trans case (part time) with 250***Kms

One of you must know what would cause that gear rubbing sound in the transfer case and it has something to do with how it is possible to shift on the fly with out stripping the linkage gears that connect the rear to the front. Is there a clutch pack in there?

Please help :)

#8 BLHTAZ

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Posted 19 December 2008 - 07:46 AM

When you say "on the fly", how fast are you going when you try to shift? On the fly with a 231 means slowly rolling and I have never seen one that would shift in to 4WD without grinding (if at all) without the clutch being engaged. Sounds like you are trying to make it do things that it's not intended to do to me.

Does it make these noises if you stop, shift in to 4WD and then drive?

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#9 MiNi Beast

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Posted 19 December 2008 - 08:49 AM

:agree:

your not driving done the road and trying to put in 4wd are you?

:hmm: :hmm: :hmm: :hmm:
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#10 ComancheBSJ90

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Posted 19 December 2008 - 04:04 PM

4 HIGH: Shift-on-the-Fly at speeds up to 88 km/h (55 mph)

My truck was Shifting-on-the-fly before I adjusted the shift linkage.
Now I need to stop without using the clutch to shift to 4hi.

This however is not my concern because when I set up the linkage how it was, my on-the-fly will work up to 55mph.

My concern is still my first post and that is why I hear that gear rubbing sound from the trans case when all wheels are break locked and sliding on ice/snow.

It must directly relate to what couples the rear to the front and how on-the-fly shifting is possible with out clutches? Are there syncro gears to time the shift?
Am I supposed to depress the clutch when shifting to 4hi? I never had to before and had no problems...


Again all suggestions are appreciated.

#11 Eagle

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Posted 20 December 2008 - 04:45 PM

I still have the same problem as noted above and I still can't shift to 4hi on the fly.

With these part time transfer cases' does it require the clutch to be depressed to shift?

No, it does not. Shift-on-the-fly is good up to 50 MPH (according to the factory owners manual - I've shifted at 55 or 60 with no ill effects). It doesn't require disengaging the clutch, but it does require that all four wheels be rolling at the same speed, and neutral throttle. It won't shift if you are in compression braking, and it won't shift if you are hammering the GO peddle. You just "feather" the throttle so the truck is rolling along with no real power being applied to the drive train from the engine, and it shifts very smoothly (usually).

If the rear wheels are spinning at 40 MPH on ice while the front wheels are rolling at 5 MPH -- forget shift-on-the-fly. That's a guaranteed way to lunch a transfer case.
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#12 ComancheBSJ90

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Posted 21 December 2008 - 06:06 PM

I could swear on it that my Four-Wheel-Drive was engaging but last night when traveling up a hard snow packed hill (in 4x4) I lost traction but kept the wheels spinning for a while. Upon inspection I had cut two wells in the snow with my rear tires and none up front!!! This is surprising in two ways because I know I have an open rear differential which should only left one well. (explanation?)

Once I get my front axles to engage in 4x4 mode I'm hopping that my original problem will also be fixed.

Any suggestions will still be help full,

thanks

#13 Eagle

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Posted 21 December 2008 - 09:44 PM

To repeat my first suggestion -- if you have a front axle disconnect, have you confirmed that it's connecting? Several years ago I couldn't make it up a snowy hill in 4WD, which surprised me greatly since I also have a limited slip. I subsequently found that the rubber nipples where the vacuum tubes fit onto the disconnect motor were so oil-soaked that they wouldn't seal. No vacuum ==> no 4WD. My solution then was to replace the vacuum harness. If I had the same problem again today, I would engage the axle manually and shim it to always stay connected. No more worries.

It's the strangest thing! It's almost as if the front axles are not fully engaged and when the wheels are locked up that one axle is locked while the other is rubbing its gears against it.


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#14 BLHTAZ

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Posted 22 December 2008 - 09:09 AM

An open axle can still spin both sides when they are on equally slippery surfaces. It's only when one tire has more traction than the other that you get the one side spinning and the other doing nothing.

I agree with Eagle...shim that CAD in to the locked postion permanently and see if your problem goes away.

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#15 ComancheBSJ90

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Posted 22 December 2008 - 04:39 PM

I opened up the shift fork lever cover and noticed that one of the plastic nibs on one side of the fork was broken in two. If I leave it will there be problems with metal to metal friction between the fork and 'lock gear'? (if the other one breaks!)

thanks

#16 BLHTAZ

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Posted 22 December 2008 - 07:48 PM

It will eventually cause trouble as it wears. It will be a bit noisy too.

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#17 Eagle

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Posted 22 December 2008 - 07:49 PM

Possibly, but probably not.

But -- with one of the nibs broken/missing, it's likely that the disconnect is not operating properly, and that is likely the cause of your problem. I would highly recommend that you manually move the collar to the ENGAGED position and follow the instructions provided elsewhere on this site for locking it in that position. Once that's done, if the outside of the collar wears a bit it won't really make any difference, because once it wears away there won't be any more contact, and you won't need it to slide any more so the wear won't affect operation.
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#18 ComancheBSJ90

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Posted 22 December 2008 - 10:24 PM

Alright, I fixed it! It must of been that splined collier that locks the two axles together was only rubbing with the other axles' splines.

I shimmed the CAD fork as documented , and moved and locked using the C-clip. To my surprise this shimmed it to keep the axles unlocked (different setup as documented?) so i painfully slid it back as original and put hot glue on all the vacuum holes so it could not slide. I also plugged the vacuum lines, but now my Part-Time light does not come on! More reading...

Thanks for all the help, again. Hopefully this will help some one in the future,

Mike

#19 Pete M

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Posted 22 December 2008 - 10:53 PM

Well, since the part time light is vacuum activated and you've plugged some lines, you might have plugged its line.

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